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> It's scary to think that just 2 to 3 corporations have the power to construct a false reality around us I do believe it's been this way for a while. Noam Ch

by bb88 4y ago

> It's scary to think that just 2 to 3 corporations have the power to construct a false reality around us I do believe it's been this way for a while. Noam Chomsky wrote Manufacturing Consent in 1988. (There's a movie out there created in 1992 if you don't want to read the book). Basically the same factors at work then are the same factors at work today -- just escalated with an algorithm. There is an objective reality -- it's just that people are too lazy to go find it.

wjnc 4y ago
Pretty near Chomsky in the realm of ontology are the thoughts that the objective reality isn’t findable by respectively the average person, people in general or at all. I wouldn’t call people lazy for being unable or unwilling to find out the objective reality. What domains offer enough rewards to do that for? A proper quest towards objective reality costs you from weeks to a lifetime. Humans are satisficers, not optimizers.
- arinlen 4y ago
  > I wouldn’t call people lazy for being unable or unwilling to find out the objective reality. I'd frame it differently. Everyone has their personal lives to deal with, as well as their personal interests. Everyone has their priority queue to deal with their daily life. If no one ever watch a specific newspice then that person will be completely oblivious to it, and if they watch it then they have far more important things to do than fact checking something that's not even in their priority queue. I feel that this problem is actually being presented backwards. People push stories because they want to force upon the public specific points of view over very specific topics. Call it editorialization, call it propaganda. It's the same thing. Failing to see a point of view pushed onto the public is not a problem from the individual's standpoint, nor something that affects people's lives. The only people that are impacted by this are those who stand to benefit from manipulating the public.
glogla 4y ago
[flagged]
- hnav 4y ago
  He’s an academic, I don’t think he “supports” like it’s a ball team. Whenever you try to find nuance in such a situation, you’re a POS to those with predetermined views.
  - arinlen 4y ago
    > He’s an academic,I don’t think he “supports” like it’s a ball team. Noam Chomsky is "an academic" in the field of linguistics and cognitive science. Outside of academia he's an activist, and one which is very vocal in his anti-US sentiment. This is not a negative trait. Free and open societies need contrarians and antagonists, as democratic regimes do not resist echo chambers. However, let's not pretend that just because someone is employed by a university that person is suddenly impartial and devoid of any personal opinion on politics.
    - hef19898 4y ago
      As with all academics that gain fame, and then step outside their field of expertise, he started to look a tad stupid. Peterson is another example, as are those German "intelectuals" who also called for a Ukrainian surrender of sorts.
      - arinlen 4y ago
        > As with all academics that gain fame, and then step outside their field of expertise, he started to look a tad stupid. Chomsky's political opinions aren't stupid per se, they are simply his personal opinions. What's indeed mind-numbingly stupid is this notion that just because someone is paid by a university to dedicate his time to research a specific topic, such as linguistics, that somehow that makes that person an infallible authority in any conceivable topic, including highly subjective ones like politics.
      - 4y ago
inphovore 4y ago
> There is an objective reality -- it's just that people are too lazy to go find it. It is not that Truth is impossible to find, rather that undeceiving the self is difficult.
- arinlen 4y ago
  > It is not that Truth is impossible to find, rather that undeceiving the self is difficult. I feel that people are misrepresenting the issue. What they seek is not the objective truth. This is about politics, and the goal is to impose their will onto others, whether they are onboard ir not. Consequently, "seeking the truth" is being used as an euphemism for "persuade to join my political cause to further my personal political goals". Hence the army of militants who insist that the hypothetical existence of a mythical laptop is relevant because that is the propaganda wedge to dislodge a political rival from holding office.
wellthatsawrap1 4y ago
And when they are not too lazy to find out, they are labeled as racists, Russian sympathizers, anti-vaxers, conspiracy theorist and have their voices silenced... to protect democracy.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  Yeah, the problem is that when they are not too lazy they tend to try and save the children locked up in the basement of a pizza restaurant with no basement, assault armored FBI buildings with nail guns, or mail non-functional explosives built in their van-house to members of congress and the media.
  - world1212 4y ago
starkd 4y ago
It's not that they are too lazy. People don't have time to devote that much energy to small details. That's why credibility in journalism is of top importance.
JKCalhoun 4y ago
Manufacturing Consent on YouTube: https://youtu.be/EuwmWnphqII https://youtu.be/EuwmWnphqII
- heap_perms 4y ago
  I can highly recommend it. I didn't read the book, because it would take too long, but the film is a masterpiece in my opinion. Can anyone recommend something similar?
  - cf141q5325 4y ago
    I believe the classic go to on this topic is Bernays book "Propaganda".

by bb88 4y ago

wjnc 4y ago

Pretty near Chomsky in the realm of ontology are the thoughts that the objective reality isn’t findable by respectively the average person, people in general or at all. I wouldn’t call people lazy for being unable or unwilling to find out the objective reality. What domains offer enough rewards to do that for? A proper quest towards objective reality costs you from weeks to a lifetime. Humans are satisficers, not optimizers.

arinlen 4y ago
> I wouldn’t call people lazy for being unable or unwilling to find out the objective reality. I'd frame it differently. Everyone has their personal lives to deal with, as well as their personal interests. Everyone has their priority queue to deal with their daily life. If no one ever watch a specific newspice then that person will be completely oblivious to it, and if they watch it then they have far more important things to do than fact checking something that's not even in their priority queue. I feel that this problem is actually being presented backwards. People push stories because they want to force upon the public specific points of view over very specific topics. Call it editorialization, call it propaganda. It's the same thing. Failing to see a point of view pushed onto the public is not a problem from the individual's standpoint, nor something that affects people's lives. The only people that are impacted by this are those who stand to benefit from manipulating the public.

glogla 4y ago

[flagged]

hnav 4y ago
He’s an academic, I don’t think he “supports” like it’s a ball team. Whenever you try to find nuance in such a situation, you’re a POS to those with predetermined views.
- arinlen 4y ago
  > He’s an academic,I don’t think he “supports” like it’s a ball team. Noam Chomsky is "an academic" in the field of linguistics and cognitive science. Outside of academia he's an activist, and one which is very vocal in his anti-US sentiment. This is not a negative trait. Free and open societies need contrarians and antagonists, as democratic regimes do not resist echo chambers. However, let's not pretend that just because someone is employed by a university that person is suddenly impartial and devoid of any personal opinion on politics.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    As with all academics that gain fame, and then step outside their field of expertise, he started to look a tad stupid. Peterson is another example, as are those German "intelectuals" who also called for a Ukrainian surrender of sorts.
    - arinlen 4y ago
      > As with all academics that gain fame, and then step outside their field of expertise, he started to look a tad stupid. Chomsky's political opinions aren't stupid per se, they are simply his personal opinions. What's indeed mind-numbingly stupid is this notion that just because someone is paid by a university to dedicate his time to research a specific topic, such as linguistics, that somehow that makes that person an infallible authority in any conceivable topic, including highly subjective ones like politics.
    - 4y ago

inphovore 4y ago

> There is an objective reality -- it's just that people are too lazy to go find it. It is not that Truth is impossible to find, rather that undeceiving the self is difficult.

arinlen 4y ago
> It is not that Truth is impossible to find, rather that undeceiving the self is difficult. I feel that people are misrepresenting the issue. What they seek is not the objective truth. This is about politics, and the goal is to impose their will onto others, whether they are onboard ir not. Consequently, "seeking the truth" is being used as an euphemism for "persuade to join my political cause to further my personal political goals". Hence the army of militants who insist that the hypothetical existence of a mythical laptop is relevant because that is the propaganda wedge to dislodge a political rival from holding office.

wellthatsawrap1 4y ago

And when they are not too lazy to find out, they are labeled as racists, Russian sympathizers, anti-vaxers, conspiracy theorist and have their voices silenced... to protect democracy.

hotpotamus 4y ago
Yeah, the problem is that when they are not too lazy they tend to try and save the children locked up in the basement of a pizza restaurant with no basement, assault armored FBI buildings with nail guns, or mail non-functional explosives built in their van-house to members of congress and the media.
- world1212 4y ago

starkd 4y ago

It's not that they are too lazy. People don't have time to devote that much energy to small details. That's why credibility in journalism is of top importance.

JKCalhoun 4y ago

Manufacturing Consent on YouTube: https://youtu.be/EuwmWnphqII https://youtu.be/EuwmWnphqII

heap_perms 4y ago
I can highly recommend it. I didn't read the book, because it would take too long, but the film is a masterpiece in my opinion. Can anyone recommend something similar?
- cf141q5325 4y ago
  I believe the classic go to on this topic is Bernays book "Propaganda".