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There were only a small number of Anna Nicole Smiths and nobody wanted to 'be like her'. In fact, they were hugely derided. Edit: not only that, she wasn't par

There were only a small number of Anna Nicole Smiths and nobody wanted to 'be like her'. In fact, they were hugely derided. Edit: not only that, she wasn't particularly famous. I suggest anyone disagreeing provide some names of people who were arbitrarily famous, specifically wherein 20% of that generation would have aspired to become. It simply didn't exist. I suggest most people who disagree weren't even alive a the time. In the perennial game of 'prejudices about generations' I think this one is a material issue.

bawolff 4y ago
Ah yes, the no true scotsman defense. If i, as a person who dont give a shit about celebrities, know who she was, then she's probably reasonably famous. At least as famous as a modern B-tier influencer.
- jollybean 4y ago
  No. Fame, Aspiration and attitudes towards those people are empirically measurable. There were very few 'Anna Nicole Smiths' before 2000, it wasn't really until Paris Hilton who broke the mould and 'professionalized' the notion. And nobody wanted to be Anna Nicole Smith, there was no aspirational aspect to her fame.
  - nemothekid 4y ago
    >There were very few 'Anna Nicole Smiths' before 2000, it wasn't really until Paris Hilton who broke the mould and 'professionalized' the notion. Just because you didn't know about socialites before MTV poured millions of marketing dollars in Paris doesn't mean they didn't exist. Anna Nicole Smith came into real fame in 1993. You have women like Gigi Hadid and Kate Moss who were very famous socialites who were the aspirations of teen girls everywhere. Typically they were models, but that isn't any different than an influencer today who takes selfies. I know I'm being extremely condescending to both of these women but on the barmoeter for "doing something" there isn't that much different from someone like Kate Moss and Addison Rae or Valkyrae. To claim that no one wanted to be Kate Moss in the 90s given how much of a problem anorexia became is ridiculous. Honestly, someone equally unaware could say the same thing about gaming. It's like saying "Notch" professionalized the notion of being a game developer. For Gen Z there is likely far more people who played Minecraft than have played Quake, but it would be ridiculous to say that game development didn't exist before Notch or that people didn't aspire to be game developers before Minecraft. >And nobody wanted to be Anna Nicole Smith This is a woman who had several modeling deals but I guess the executives at those companies were completely braindead and didn't realize that people didn't care for her.
- ryangibb 4y ago
  > the no true scotsman defense How is this a 'no true scotsman' defense? I don't see the relevance.
  - bawolff 4y ago
    Someone presented an example, which was then summarily dismissed as not a real example. That's pretty textbook example of no true scotsman.
    - ryangibb 4y ago
      Got it, thanks.

bawolff 4y ago

Ah yes, the no true scotsman defense. If i, as a person who dont give a shit about celebrities, know who she was, then she's probably reasonably famous. At least as famous as a modern B-tier influencer.

jollybean 4y ago
No. Fame, Aspiration and attitudes towards those people are empirically measurable. There were very few 'Anna Nicole Smiths' before 2000, it wasn't really until Paris Hilton who broke the mould and 'professionalized' the notion. And nobody wanted to be Anna Nicole Smith, there was no aspirational aspect to her fame.
- nemothekid 4y ago
  >There were very few 'Anna Nicole Smiths' before 2000, it wasn't really until Paris Hilton who broke the mould and 'professionalized' the notion. Just because you didn't know about socialites before MTV poured millions of marketing dollars in Paris doesn't mean they didn't exist. Anna Nicole Smith came into real fame in 1993. You have women like Gigi Hadid and Kate Moss who were very famous socialites who were the aspirations of teen girls everywhere. Typically they were models, but that isn't any different than an influencer today who takes selfies. I know I'm being extremely condescending to both of these women but on the barmoeter for "doing something" there isn't that much different from someone like Kate Moss and Addison Rae or Valkyrae. To claim that no one wanted to be Kate Moss in the 90s given how much of a problem anorexia became is ridiculous. Honestly, someone equally unaware could say the same thing about gaming. It's like saying "Notch" professionalized the notion of being a game developer. For Gen Z there is likely far more people who played Minecraft than have played Quake, but it would be ridiculous to say that game development didn't exist before Notch or that people didn't aspire to be game developers before Minecraft. >And nobody wanted to be Anna Nicole Smith This is a woman who had several modeling deals but I guess the executives at those companies were completely braindead and didn't realize that people didn't care for her.
ryangibb 4y ago
> the no true scotsman defense How is this a 'no true scotsman' defense? I don't see the relevance.
- bawolff 4y ago
  Someone presented an example, which was then summarily dismissed as not a real example. That's pretty textbook example of no true scotsman.
  - ryangibb 4y ago
    Got it, thanks.