3 ms·

It's such a negative thought experiment isn't it? Not saying it doesn't hold some water but man it's bleak.

lisper 4y ago
Yep. I've been in a serious existential crisis over this for the last few years. It's not like disaster is inevitable. We could cut carbon emissions before they destroy technological civilization, or maybe come up with a practical way to (re-)sequester the carbon we've emitted. But right now it is not looking particularly promising to me, and time is running out fast.
- bamboozled 4y ago
  What are you doing about it? I think if you're that concerned about it, you should be working to solve it, this would surely be the antidote to your worries. Just writing a letter to your representatives would be a simple way to help.
  - lisper 4y ago
    Only if I thought that there was something my representative could do that would solve the problem. The reason I'm in existential despair is that the distance between what I think would need to be done to solve the problem and what can plausibly be done given the realities of our world is vast. Even if we cut emissions to zero tomorrow (which is obviously not going to happen) that would not solve the current problem. I think that if you look at things realistically, we have already passed the point of no return. So what I am doing is searching for someone who can persuade me that I'm wrong and that there is a plausible path forward that does not involve societal collapse in the near future (by which I mean the next 100 years or so). When I find that person I'm going to put a lot of effort into trying to help them succeed. But so far I have not found them. I'm also putting some effort into building a legacy (by which I mean a societal legacy, not a personal one) that our descendants could use to rebuild civilization once the planet settles into a new equilibrium. That will probably be at least a few thousand years from now, so this too is a real challenge.
    - bamboozled 4y ago
      If nothing could be done, then why are you stressed, you'll just have to go with it.
      - lisper 4y ago
        Because I think there is a significant chance that civilization will collapse within my lifetime, and that is not going to be fun.
        bamboozled 4y ago
        Well, worrying about it won't change much.
        rainbell 4y ago
        you sound like another me in the world
    - FiatLuxDave 4y ago
      I'm sorry that you are going through existential despair over the climate/energy problem. Existential despair sucks, regardless of cause. I'm not sure that I'm the best person to persuade you that you are wrong, but I can at least share my perspective. I also don't see writing your representative as being all that helpful. On the other hand, as a physicist who's been working on and thinking about energy issues my entire life, I think that the sheer amount of available negentropy that we are ignoring makes it inevitable that someone will find a solution. There are other renewable energy sources out there other than wind, solar, geothermal, etc which are not even being talked about. One of these is evaporative convection energy (basically what powers hurricanes). It's literally an engine that runs on global warming; the more you use it the more it cools the Earth. There are other ideas as well out there, that one's just the one I'm working on. Someone's going to get it. Some people get depressed because 'we as a society can't work together to solve this problem'. I don't look at things that way. I see it more like when a customer or standard specifies that you have to use a particular library in your code that is maybe not your favorite. You can gripe and moan and try to get them to change it, but in the end that's the spec. And society's spec for a solution is an energy technology that 1) doesn't make CO2/global warming 2) is cheaper enough than existing fossil tech that it will displace it and 3) actually works. Most existing solutions don't meet 2 and most drawing board solutions don't meet 3. But its far from an impossible spec. Trying to change someone's weltanshauung is too big for a single post, but if you are interested in a different viewpoint, my email's in profile. Either way, I hope that hope finds you again.

Yep. I've been in a serious existential crisis over this for the last few years. It's not like disaster is inevitable. We could cut carbon emissions before they destroy technological civilization, or maybe come up with a practical way to (re-)sequester the carbon we've emitted. But right now it is not looking particularly promising to me, and time is running out fast.

bamboozled 4y ago
What are you doing about it? I think if you're that concerned about it, you should be working to solve it, this would surely be the antidote to your worries. Just writing a letter to your representatives would be a simple way to help.
- lisper 4y ago
  Only if I thought that there was something my representative could do that would solve the problem. The reason I'm in existential despair is that the distance between what I think would need to be done to solve the problem and what can plausibly be done given the realities of our world is vast. Even if we cut emissions to zero tomorrow (which is obviously not going to happen) that would not solve the current problem. I think that if you look at things realistically, we have already passed the point of no return. So what I am doing is searching for someone who can persuade me that I'm wrong and that there is a plausible path forward that does not involve societal collapse in the near future (by which I mean the next 100 years or so). When I find that person I'm going to put a lot of effort into trying to help them succeed. But so far I have not found them. I'm also putting some effort into building a legacy (by which I mean a societal legacy, not a personal one) that our descendants could use to rebuild civilization once the planet settles into a new equilibrium. That will probably be at least a few thousand years from now, so this too is a real challenge.
  - bamboozled 4y ago
    If nothing could be done, then why are you stressed, you'll just have to go with it.
    - lisper 4y ago
      Because I think there is a significant chance that civilization will collapse within my lifetime, and that is not going to be fun.
      - bamboozled 4y ago
        Well, worrying about it won't change much.
      - rainbell 4y ago
        you sound like another me in the world
  - FiatLuxDave 4y ago
    I'm sorry that you are going through existential despair over the climate/energy problem. Existential despair sucks, regardless of cause. I'm not sure that I'm the best person to persuade you that you are wrong, but I can at least share my perspective. I also don't see writing your representative as being all that helpful. On the other hand, as a physicist who's been working on and thinking about energy issues my entire life, I think that the sheer amount of available negentropy that we are ignoring makes it inevitable that someone will find a solution. There are other renewable energy sources out there other than wind, solar, geothermal, etc which are not even being talked about. One of these is evaporative convection energy (basically what powers hurricanes). It's literally an engine that runs on global warming; the more you use it the more it cools the Earth. There are other ideas as well out there, that one's just the one I'm working on. Someone's going to get it. Some people get depressed because 'we as a society can't work together to solve this problem'. I don't look at things that way. I see it more like when a customer or standard specifies that you have to use a particular library in your code that is maybe not your favorite. You can gripe and moan and try to get them to change it, but in the end that's the spec. And society's spec for a solution is an energy technology that 1) doesn't make CO2/global warming 2) is cheaper enough than existing fossil tech that it will displace it and 3) actually works. Most existing solutions don't meet 2 and most drawing board solutions don't meet 3. But its far from an impossible spec. Trying to change someone's weltanshauung is too big for a single post, but if you are interested in a different viewpoint, my email's in profile. Either way, I hope that hope finds you again.