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Think of it instead as designing tools that make learning fun, and enables that gratifying feeling you described. Lego, for example, has probably created genera

Think of it instead as designing tools that make learning fun, and enables that gratifying feeling you described. Lego, for example, has probably created generations of people with incredibly high levels of visual-spatial intuition who've all been inspired to go on to become designers and engineers of all kinds. It doesn't have to occur within the walls of a school for something to be considered education.

mrtksn 4y ago
Sure, I don't have an objection on that. In fact, anything up until college is actually distilled and idealised version of the ideas about how nature works. That's why people solve math, physics and other problems recreationally. However I don't want to call it gamification because those are not designed in a game format in order to make you do something that you normally wouldn't want to do. Those are simplification or analogies to bring ideas within the grasp of the student so they can reach it with their current toolset but without mischaracterising it. So when a student calculates the trajectory of a ball in ideal condition, this is still a calculation of a balls trajectory and not something else.
ghaff 4y ago
>designing tools that make learning fun While I don't wholly disagree, there's a lot of edtech out there premised on the notion that all subjects, even sometimes challenging ones, should be like playing a game for all people or you're doing it wrong. I submit that you're always going to have some percentage of students who pretty much hate math however you teach it and some percentage who don't want to read books even with relatively "fun" and easy options. Can I find plenty of problems at all levels of education? Sure. Are there more engaging things we can do even in an environment that's largely not personalized? Of course. But everyone should have fun all the time is not really a realistic goal unless you just let kids do whatever they want.
- gugagore 4y ago
  Everyone should have fun all the time is not really a realistic goal, period. I don't think playing games is universally fun either. Games can be quite boring. Games do often promote the concept of winning and losing, however.
honkdaddy 4y ago
Yep. Perfect example of this being the Lego Mindstorms platform. We had a "robotics club" at my private school which used the Mindstorms visual programming tools; there were 10 year olds learning about loops and variables in a way that was legitimately _fun_.

mrtksn 4y ago

Sure, I don't have an objection on that. In fact, anything up until college is actually distilled and idealised version of the ideas about how nature works. That's why people solve math, physics and other problems recreationally. However I don't want to call it gamification because those are not designed in a game format in order to make you do something that you normally wouldn't want to do. Those are simplification or analogies to bring ideas within the grasp of the student so they can reach it with their current toolset but without mischaracterising it. So when a student calculates the trajectory of a ball in ideal condition, this is still a calculation of a balls trajectory and not something else.

ghaff 4y ago

>designing tools that make learning fun While I don't wholly disagree, there's a lot of edtech out there premised on the notion that all subjects, even sometimes challenging ones, should be like playing a game for all people or you're doing it wrong. I submit that you're always going to have some percentage of students who pretty much hate math however you teach it and some percentage who don't want to read books even with relatively "fun" and easy options. Can I find plenty of problems at all levels of education? Sure. Are there more engaging things we can do even in an environment that's largely not personalized? Of course. But everyone should have fun all the time is not really a realistic goal unless you just let kids do whatever they want.

gugagore 4y ago
Everyone should have fun all the time is not really a realistic goal, period. I don't think playing games is universally fun either. Games can be quite boring. Games do often promote the concept of winning and losing, however.

honkdaddy 4y ago

Yep. Perfect example of this being the Lego Mindstorms platform. We had a "robotics club" at my private school which used the Mindstorms visual programming tools; there were 10 year olds learning about loops and variables in a way that was legitimately _fun_.