7 ms·

From the USA it was faster (1 week), cheaper, and easier (all online, all digital, no mailing anything in) to renew my New Zealand passport, than it was to rene

by quag 4y ago

From the USA it was faster (1 week), cheaper, and easier (all online, all digital, no mailing anything in) to renew my New Zealand passport, than it was to renew the US passport for the little one. We were left with the impression that the USA just doesn’t care about improving these things. So it’s nice to see that the improvements are coming, they just took a while.

diogenescynic 4y ago
>We were left with the impression that the USA just doesn’t care about improving these things. I don't think our politicians actually care. They prefer to fight culture wars and pay lip service to real issues.
- newaccount2021 4y ago
pjc50 4y ago
> We were left with the impression that the USA just doesn’t care about improving these things. The anti-statism in the US turns readily into "if you interact with the state, it should be a miserable underfunded experience" rather than "since it has to happen, we're going to make it easy and convenient so as not to consume too much time, money and energy from our citizens" (unless a libertarian wants to argue that the US should simply not issue passports at all and .. leave it up to private enterprise somehow?)
- humanwhosits 4y ago
  "Subscribe to MegaCorp Brand Passport today! Featuring access to 52 tourist destination and monthly bonus locations!"
  - word_virus 4y ago
    Ugh. That sounds so horrible it could actually happen.
- ctxc 4y ago
  I shudder thinking of how it would be if passport issuance was handed over to the highest private bidder. Intuit already disgusts me with the tax shenanigans, can't imagine passports...
  - pjc50 4y ago
    I wondered about this and found the awesome https://discover.passportindex.org/security/who-prints-your-passport/ https://discover.passportindex.org/security/who-prints-your-... - the US seems to be unusual in not contracting it out to De La Rue (who also do banknotes) or Gemalto (subsidiary of Thales).
- r0m4n0 4y ago
  It’s high up in the chain and miserable is a side effect of underfunded. I spent some time working at the CA dmv headquarters and can honestly say it’s actually kind of crazy how small the crew is that gets to decide how every other dmv in the state is run. They are running on a pretty tight budget (we had to fund our own drinking water and coffee) and they are definitely not trendsetters. These are people that have spent decades working in low paid government jobs and aren’t interested in risking much of anything. They have little resources, are not on the bleeding edge of anything, they know what works and mostly stick to that. As an intern that knew my way around mail merges, outlook, and excel macros (around 2010), their minds were blown. But also they patted me on the head, gave me a phone, and asked me to physically call every DMV office in CA to ask them how many physical manuals they needed shipped to their office
- sailfast 4y ago
  The bureau of consular affairs is funded by passport fees most of the time. They started losing a billion plus per year during COVID. This isn’t necessarily a problem of anti-statism as much of resources. Nobody wants their passport fees to triple and it wouldn’t be fair. There also isn’t always an incentive to make things more efficient in the short term, so it’s not quite as simple in this case.
  - joe5150 4y ago
    Resources are constrained only because of policies that say government services need to be self-funded to a greater extent than makes sense, even when this creates inefficiencies or perverse incentives (speed traps, asset forfeiture). Even if it's not intentionally anti-statist, the effect of undermining people's belief that the government can do anything useful or effective is the same.
- zo1 4y ago
  > "(unless a libertarian wants to argue that the US should simply not issue passports at all and .. leave it up to private enterprise somehow?) " I won't take you up on your offer, but I'd recommend for us all to take this concept of a passport and peel it back to it's core and constituent parts. Then be a bit honest and see how we feel about the freedom we supposedly have to roam this Earth free from tyranny and fear.
hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
Unfortunately the political dynamic in the US ensures that most federal government services will remain in shambles. On one side there is a party that actively believes that "government is the problem", and does its best to prove that by deliberately kneecapping government agencies. Just look at the recent debate over the IRS. I mean, I don't like being taxed anymore than anyone else, but I think a professional, competent IRS is a clear necessity for funding the federal government. On the other side there is a fear of getting branded "socialist", or just proposing things that will never come to pass, so what we are often left with is these Frankenstein "private-public" partnerships that are usually the worst of all possible worlds. E.g. you have the case where student loans are made by private institutions (or at least non-federal ones), but then then federal government guarantees them. So what we've built up is an incentive structure that makes college as expensive as possible, as student debt can't be discharged in bankruptcy, and even if it is discharged by the feds, it is the feds who are left holding the bag. Lenders and colleges are just incentivized to charge as much as possible because they are made whole no matter what.
- sailfast 4y ago
  Passport services and the Bureau of Consular Affairs are normally funded out of fees, so agreed funding politically is less of an issue, FWIW.
- treeman79 4y ago
  The government has more then enough money for essential services. That it wastes it elsewhere is it’s own problem. Any new money will get spent on something flashy that will buy votes.
BurningFrog 4y ago
My impression as an immigrant is that Americans are great when working in private organizations. Effective, helpful and friendly. But give them a government job enforcing anything, and they become the polar opposite somehow. There may be a little of that in my home country, but nowhere near this extreme. > So it’s nice to see that the improvements are coming, they just took a while. This is one single improvement, long overdue. I wouldn't extrapolate to anything else.
grasshopperpurp 4y ago
I think "little one" = your child and not a passport card? If so, minors can't renew the way adults can and must meet with an agent - similar to an adult getting a new passport. Idk how these standards are set, but unless something changes, renewing online will likely be limited to adults. Agree with your sentiments about the current process and hopes for improvement.
- brewdad 4y ago
  That and for some crazy reason my son who has had a passport since he was six months old, has to apply for his first adult passport as a brand new applicant. He has never had a lapse in holding a valid passport but since he's is now 18 he's a new person apparently.
galaxyLogic 4y ago
What bugs be is the common impression that "USA" is this or that or "USA wants" this or that. USA is (more or less) a democracy so which party is in power at the time determines what "USA wants".

by quag 4y ago

diogenescynic 4y ago

>We were left with the impression that the USA just doesn’t care about improving these things. I don't think our politicians actually care. They prefer to fight culture wars and pay lip service to real issues.

newaccount2021 4y ago

pjc50 4y ago

> We were left with the impression that the USA just doesn’t care about improving these things. The anti-statism in the US turns readily into "if you interact with the state, it should be a miserable underfunded experience" rather than "since it has to happen, we're going to make it easy and convenient so as not to consume too much time, money and energy from our citizens" (unless a libertarian wants to argue that the US should simply not issue passports at all and .. leave it up to private enterprise somehow?)

humanwhosits 4y ago
"Subscribe to MegaCorp Brand Passport today! Featuring access to 52 tourist destination and monthly bonus locations!"
- word_virus 4y ago
  Ugh. That sounds so horrible it could actually happen.
ctxc 4y ago
I shudder thinking of how it would be if passport issuance was handed over to the highest private bidder. Intuit already disgusts me with the tax shenanigans, can't imagine passports...
- pjc50 4y ago
  I wondered about this and found the awesome https://discover.passportindex.org/security/who-prints-your-passport/ https://discover.passportindex.org/security/who-prints-your-... - the US seems to be unusual in not contracting it out to De La Rue (who also do banknotes) or Gemalto (subsidiary of Thales).
r0m4n0 4y ago
It’s high up in the chain and miserable is a side effect of underfunded. I spent some time working at the CA dmv headquarters and can honestly say it’s actually kind of crazy how small the crew is that gets to decide how every other dmv in the state is run. They are running on a pretty tight budget (we had to fund our own drinking water and coffee) and they are definitely not trendsetters. These are people that have spent decades working in low paid government jobs and aren’t interested in risking much of anything. They have little resources, are not on the bleeding edge of anything, they know what works and mostly stick to that. As an intern that knew my way around mail merges, outlook, and excel macros (around 2010), their minds were blown. But also they patted me on the head, gave me a phone, and asked me to physically call every DMV office in CA to ask them how many physical manuals they needed shipped to their office
sailfast 4y ago
The bureau of consular affairs is funded by passport fees most of the time. They started losing a billion plus per year during COVID. This isn’t necessarily a problem of anti-statism as much of resources. Nobody wants their passport fees to triple and it wouldn’t be fair. There also isn’t always an incentive to make things more efficient in the short term, so it’s not quite as simple in this case.
- joe5150 4y ago
  Resources are constrained only because of policies that say government services need to be self-funded to a greater extent than makes sense, even when this creates inefficiencies or perverse incentives (speed traps, asset forfeiture). Even if it's not intentionally anti-statist, the effect of undermining people's belief that the government can do anything useful or effective is the same.
zo1 4y ago
> "(unless a libertarian wants to argue that the US should simply not issue passports at all and .. leave it up to private enterprise somehow?) " I won't take you up on your offer, but I'd recommend for us all to take this concept of a passport and peel it back to it's core and constituent parts. Then be a bit honest and see how we feel about the freedom we supposedly have to roam this Earth free from tyranny and fear.

hn_throwaway_99 4y ago

Unfortunately the political dynamic in the US ensures that most federal government services will remain in shambles. On one side there is a party that actively believes that "government is the problem", and does its best to prove that by deliberately kneecapping government agencies. Just look at the recent debate over the IRS. I mean, I don't like being taxed anymore than anyone else, but I think a professional, competent IRS is a clear necessity for funding the federal government. On the other side there is a fear of getting branded "socialist", or just proposing things that will never come to pass, so what we are often left with is these Frankenstein "private-public" partnerships that are usually the worst of all possible worlds. E.g. you have the case where student loans are made by private institutions (or at least non-federal ones), but then then federal government guarantees them. So what we've built up is an incentive structure that makes college as expensive as possible, as student debt can't be discharged in bankruptcy, and even if it is discharged by the feds, it is the feds who are left holding the bag. Lenders and colleges are just incentivized to charge as much as possible because they are made whole no matter what.

sailfast 4y ago
Passport services and the Bureau of Consular Affairs are normally funded out of fees, so agreed funding politically is less of an issue, FWIW.
treeman79 4y ago
The government has more then enough money for essential services. That it wastes it elsewhere is it’s own problem. Any new money will get spent on something flashy that will buy votes.

BurningFrog 4y ago

My impression as an immigrant is that Americans are great when working in private organizations. Effective, helpful and friendly. But give them a government job enforcing anything, and they become the polar opposite somehow. There may be a little of that in my home country, but nowhere near this extreme. > So it’s nice to see that the improvements are coming, they just took a while. This is one single improvement, long overdue. I wouldn't extrapolate to anything else.

grasshopperpurp 4y ago

I think "little one" = your child and not a passport card? If so, minors can't renew the way adults can and must meet with an agent - similar to an adult getting a new passport. Idk how these standards are set, but unless something changes, renewing online will likely be limited to adults. Agree with your sentiments about the current process and hopes for improvement.

brewdad 4y ago
That and for some crazy reason my son who has had a passport since he was six months old, has to apply for his first adult passport as a brand new applicant. He has never had a lapse in holding a valid passport but since he's is now 18 he's a new person apparently.

galaxyLogic 4y ago

What bugs be is the common impression that "USA" is this or that or "USA wants" this or that. USA is (more or less) a democracy so which party is in power at the time determines what "USA wants".