4 ms·

> illegal for her to enter the US on anything but a US passport From what I recall reading on the internet (don't blame me if it's wrong), it's "illegal" but t

> illegal for her to enter the US on anything but a US passport From what I recall reading on the internet (don't blame me if it's wrong), it's "illegal" but there's no actual penalty on the books. Apparently they scold you and give you a hard time, but let you pass through, since citizens are required to be allowed entry. (And I mean, consider what if you lost your passport during your trip?) I don't personally know anyone who's actually tried this so I have no idea how true it is in reality.

orangepurple 4y ago
How would you board your aircraft without a valid travel document? The air carriers won't let you.
- dataflow 4y ago
  > How would you board your aircraft without a valid travel document? You lose your passport after boarding, or bring a certificate of naturalization, birth certificate, etc. that proves your citizenship. Or in the parent's case, try with the "Consular Report of Birth Abroad". I have no idea if the US accepts that, but it seems to me it should, since it proves citizenship which implies that person can't be denied entry.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    > You lose your passport after boarding The problem being discussed is the price of US passports, not trying to figure out how to enter the US without a passport that you've paid for.
    - dataflow 4y ago
      Yes, hence the rest of that comment. Those 6 words were just giving yet another example for the general case, which they would need to have a process for handling.
- notch656a 4y ago
  There are several modes of transport besides commercial aircraft that reach the border of the US. Wouldn't surprise me if "look at me I'm white and speak with American south accent" might have gotten a charismatic enough individual on a plane to the US at some point after not having a passport for whatever reason, on some unscrupulous airline. Edit: per below, unscrupulous was a poor word choice. I should have used a whatever word means "imposing low level of scrutiny."
  - dataflow 4y ago
    > unscrupulous airline. I'm unsure about this, but from what I've gathered, airlines can bring people to the border without verifying travel documents. The only caveat is they have to be willing to transport that person back if they're not admitted. And IIRC this can happen even if that person has a visa etc., since not every valid entry document guarantees admission, so it's not like carriers would know the admission result prior to the passenger's boarding anyway. Assuming the above is correct, what this implies to me is that—if an airline was willing to (say) take a deposit or something from a passenger to cover their cost of return, or if they were willing to (for whatever reason) foot the bill themselves—then they could totally let a passenger without valid documentation on board. The only thing that stands in their way of doing this would be their internal corporate policies, really. Unless there's an actual law implying otherwise that I'm unaware of, which is possible.
- CalRobert 4y ago
  You could board with your other passport (this is for a dual citizen) - though in that case you'd need to have an ESTA, which is annoying.
mellavora 4y ago
> it's "illegal" but there's no actual penalty on the books. Actually, there is. They can deny you entry, which means you get put on the next flight back. Not sure if that qualifies as "penalty" in you mind or not, but if we start getting pendantic, "illegal" is not always "criminal", i.e. does not universally imply crime.
- dataflow 4y ago
  > They can deny you entry (a) They can't do that if you're a citizen; you have a right to enter regardless of whether you have a passport. Heck, there might not even be a place to return you to. (b) That wouldn't be a "penalty" in the law regardless (and this has nothing to do with criminal vs. civil vs. "illegal" vs. whatever). That is, if you do prove your citizenship somehow, they cannot turn you back to penalize you for not having a passport—period. The question is whether you can prove your identity (and thus citizenship) without a passport. There are lots of ways to do this, and it seems [1] that "A Certification of Report of Birth, issued to U.S. citizens who were born outside the U.S." is sufficient to prove citizenship in other cases, so it seems plausible that that's sufficient for entering the country too. (I wouldn't be surprised if even a State ID would be sufficient for them to look up your citizenship info in practice, since they cannot deny you entry if they discover you're a citizen.) [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/42/435.407 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/42/435.407 (note that this section is NOT specifically for entering the US; I'm just providing it as an example of documents that adequately establish citizenship in other cases)
  - 8note 4y ago
    (a) happens regulay. Moreso to people with brown skin - theyll deport you to wherever and call it a day
    - dataflow 4y ago
      Citation needed. I highly doubt they do that "regularly" after they've witnessed evidence of citizenship other than a passport.

orangepurple 4y ago

How would you board your aircraft without a valid travel document? The air carriers won't let you.

dataflow 4y ago
> How would you board your aircraft without a valid travel document? You lose your passport after boarding, or bring a certificate of naturalization, birth certificate, etc. that proves your citizenship. Or in the parent's case, try with the "Consular Report of Birth Abroad". I have no idea if the US accepts that, but it seems to me it should, since it proves citizenship which implies that person can't be denied entry.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > You lose your passport after boarding The problem being discussed is the price of US passports, not trying to figure out how to enter the US without a passport that you've paid for.
  - dataflow 4y ago
    Yes, hence the rest of that comment. Those 6 words were just giving yet another example for the general case, which they would need to have a process for handling.
notch656a 4y ago
There are several modes of transport besides commercial aircraft that reach the border of the US. Wouldn't surprise me if "look at me I'm white and speak with American south accent" might have gotten a charismatic enough individual on a plane to the US at some point after not having a passport for whatever reason, on some unscrupulous airline. Edit: per below, unscrupulous was a poor word choice. I should have used a whatever word means "imposing low level of scrutiny."
- dataflow 4y ago
  > unscrupulous airline. I'm unsure about this, but from what I've gathered, airlines can bring people to the border without verifying travel documents. The only caveat is they have to be willing to transport that person back if they're not admitted. And IIRC this can happen even if that person has a visa etc., since not every valid entry document guarantees admission, so it's not like carriers would know the admission result prior to the passenger's boarding anyway. Assuming the above is correct, what this implies to me is that—if an airline was willing to (say) take a deposit or something from a passenger to cover their cost of return, or if they were willing to (for whatever reason) foot the bill themselves—then they could totally let a passenger without valid documentation on board. The only thing that stands in their way of doing this would be their internal corporate policies, really. Unless there's an actual law implying otherwise that I'm unaware of, which is possible.
CalRobert 4y ago
You could board with your other passport (this is for a dual citizen) - though in that case you'd need to have an ESTA, which is annoying.

mellavora 4y ago

> it's "illegal" but there's no actual penalty on the books. Actually, there is. They can deny you entry, which means you get put on the next flight back. Not sure if that qualifies as "penalty" in you mind or not, but if we start getting pendantic, "illegal" is not always "criminal", i.e. does not universally imply crime.

dataflow 4y ago
> They can deny you entry (a) They can't do that if you're a citizen; you have a right to enter regardless of whether you have a passport. Heck, there might not even be a place to return you to. (b) That wouldn't be a "penalty" in the law regardless (and this has nothing to do with criminal vs. civil vs. "illegal" vs. whatever). That is, if you do prove your citizenship somehow, they cannot turn you back to penalize you for not having a passport—period. The question is whether you can prove your identity (and thus citizenship) without a passport. There are lots of ways to do this, and it seems [1] that "A Certification of Report of Birth, issued to U.S. citizens who were born outside the U.S." is sufficient to prove citizenship in other cases, so it seems plausible that that's sufficient for entering the country too. (I wouldn't be surprised if even a State ID would be sufficient for them to look up your citizenship info in practice, since they cannot deny you entry if they discover you're a citizen.) [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/42/435.407 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/42/435.407 (note that this section is NOT specifically for entering the US; I'm just providing it as an example of documents that adequately establish citizenship in other cases)
- 8note 4y ago
  (a) happens regulay. Moreso to people with brown skin - theyll deport you to wherever and call it a day
  - dataflow 4y ago
    Citation needed. I highly doubt they do that "regularly" after they've witnessed evidence of citizenship other than a passport.