5 ms·

Internal combustion engines regularly get that hot. It isn't hot enough to damage any commonly used metals.

by jessaustin 4y ago

giantg2 4y ago
But do you want that in a phone, in your pocket? Or any other electrical device? Or producing that heat in your house?
- cestith 4y ago
  I regularly heat things in and near my house to 350º, 450º or even 600º F. It's called cooking. I'm pretty sure if I look at my water heater or clothes dryer the point heat source raising the temperature there is well over 200º F as well.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    Yeah, and those aren't constantly on, some require outside venting and/or insulation. They also don't constitute the majority of a wall. There's a reason old timey kitchens were outdoors in the hot areas. All I'm saying is that there are other concerns with this battery vs a lithium battery, and that I feel the concerns are much lower with lithium.
    - cestith 4y ago
      I'm more concerned about the battery itself bursting into flame on my wall, frankly, than having a battery that needs some insulation and a metal enclosure between it and air-conditioned space. Lithium batteries can do that. They say this one can't. Either way, safety steps should be taken before putting a battery in a pile of oily rags or anything.
      - giantg2 4y ago
        Eh, that's exceedingly rare. I wouldn't be surprised if defects in the mass manufacturing of the new battery produces rare fire hazards too. I assume the thermal expansion and contraction of the containment materials will lead to issues too (I've seen it in even cooler operation temps for other batteries). Lithium sulfur batteries are supposed to be fire safe too. I assume there are other options out there as well, stuff with thousands of cycles vs hundreds. It will be interesting to see how it pans out over the next decade, if it becomes commercially available at all.
        cestith 4y ago
        I imagine before it hits any markets (if ever of course) refinements would increase the recharge cycle limit somewhat. They used to be lower on lithium, too. We used to use NiCad and NiMH too. I'm just saying that level of heat is not a deal killer for a fixed position residential application.
    - Tagbert 4y ago
      You might have a tank water heater in your home that holds a large quantity of very hot water 24/7. Not quite to this level but in the same scale. That water heater is insulated and doesn’t prove a problem due to heat.
      - giantg2 4y ago
        Eventually you'll heat soak the insulation. With a waterheater, you have new water moving in as you use the previously heated on. The loss may be minimal, but still an efficiency drain half the year. Either way, you to pay for the housing and insulation. Then pay for a replacement battery every year or two.
        Tagbert 4y ago
        Why would you need to pay for a replacement battery? These aluminum batteries are specifically designed for long lifetimes. the operating tempurature is not a detriment to the battery.
        giantg2 4y ago
        If you're using a cycle a day, it would deteriorate to 80% capacity in just 200 days. The article says it lasts a few hundred cycles. That's not very long. The tempature isn't a detriment to the battery, in fact it's required to operate efficiently. What it does limit is the suitable applications.
- klyrs 4y ago
  > Or producing that heat in your house? Yes please, today if you can deliver. A combination battery / heater / heat pump sounds amazing.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    Only if the climate is cold enough to need it in the summer, or a mechanism to avoid the heat in the summer. And of course, if it's more efficient than other sources, like heat pumps.
- Tagbert 4y ago
  These would probably not be suitable for phones, but would be suitable for a local power bank for a house and probably also for a car. Where they might really find a place would be for grid scale power storage for solar and wind.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    Pretty sure the article said there are better options for grid storage. I doubt this would be a good candidate for vehicles due to the minimum operating temperature. Certainly vehicle design would have to change to accommodate the different pattern configuration with all the required insulation. Houses make the most sense, but not for more than emergency power given the battery life is hundreds of cycles and not thousands. Come to think of it, the need to keep it at the minimum operating temperature makes it a poor choice for emergency power too.
- jessaustin 4y ago
  Obviously this isn't for cell phones. There's no requirement to store batteries inside one's house. It's common to locate problematic equipment and supplies in unconnected sheds. I see lots of outdoor furnaces when I drive around my local area.

Internal combustion engines regularly get that hot. It isn't hot enough to damage any commonly used metals.

giantg2 4y ago

But do you want that in a phone, in your pocket? Or any other electrical device? Or producing that heat in your house?

cestith 4y ago
I regularly heat things in and near my house to 350º, 450º or even 600º F. It's called cooking. I'm pretty sure if I look at my water heater or clothes dryer the point heat source raising the temperature there is well over 200º F as well.
- giantg2 4y ago
  Yeah, and those aren't constantly on, some require outside venting and/or insulation. They also don't constitute the majority of a wall. There's a reason old timey kitchens were outdoors in the hot areas. All I'm saying is that there are other concerns with this battery vs a lithium battery, and that I feel the concerns are much lower with lithium.
  - cestith 4y ago
    I'm more concerned about the battery itself bursting into flame on my wall, frankly, than having a battery that needs some insulation and a metal enclosure between it and air-conditioned space. Lithium batteries can do that. They say this one can't. Either way, safety steps should be taken before putting a battery in a pile of oily rags or anything.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      Eh, that's exceedingly rare. I wouldn't be surprised if defects in the mass manufacturing of the new battery produces rare fire hazards too. I assume the thermal expansion and contraction of the containment materials will lead to issues too (I've seen it in even cooler operation temps for other batteries). Lithium sulfur batteries are supposed to be fire safe too. I assume there are other options out there as well, stuff with thousands of cycles vs hundreds. It will be interesting to see how it pans out over the next decade, if it becomes commercially available at all.
      - cestith 4y ago
        I imagine before it hits any markets (if ever of course) refinements would increase the recharge cycle limit somewhat. They used to be lower on lithium, too. We used to use NiCad and NiMH too. I'm just saying that level of heat is not a deal killer for a fixed position residential application.
  - Tagbert 4y ago
    You might have a tank water heater in your home that holds a large quantity of very hot water 24/7. Not quite to this level but in the same scale. That water heater is insulated and doesn’t prove a problem due to heat.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      Eventually you'll heat soak the insulation. With a waterheater, you have new water moving in as you use the previously heated on. The loss may be minimal, but still an efficiency drain half the year. Either way, you to pay for the housing and insulation. Then pay for a replacement battery every year or two.
      - Tagbert 4y ago
        Why would you need to pay for a replacement battery? These aluminum batteries are specifically designed for long lifetimes. the operating tempurature is not a detriment to the battery.
        giantg2 4y ago
        If you're using a cycle a day, it would deteriorate to 80% capacity in just 200 days. The article says it lasts a few hundred cycles. That's not very long. The tempature isn't a detriment to the battery, in fact it's required to operate efficiently. What it does limit is the suitable applications.
klyrs 4y ago
> Or producing that heat in your house? Yes please, today if you can deliver. A combination battery / heater / heat pump sounds amazing.
- giantg2 4y ago
  Only if the climate is cold enough to need it in the summer, or a mechanism to avoid the heat in the summer. And of course, if it's more efficient than other sources, like heat pumps.
Tagbert 4y ago
These would probably not be suitable for phones, but would be suitable for a local power bank for a house and probably also for a car. Where they might really find a place would be for grid scale power storage for solar and wind.
- giantg2 4y ago
  Pretty sure the article said there are better options for grid storage. I doubt this would be a good candidate for vehicles due to the minimum operating temperature. Certainly vehicle design would have to change to accommodate the different pattern configuration with all the required insulation. Houses make the most sense, but not for more than emergency power given the battery life is hundreds of cycles and not thousands. Come to think of it, the need to keep it at the minimum operating temperature makes it a poor choice for emergency power too.
jessaustin 4y ago
Obviously this isn't for cell phones. There's no requirement to store batteries inside one's house. It's common to locate problematic equipment and supplies in unconnected sheds. I see lots of outdoor furnaces when I drive around my local area.