4 ms·

I do backend Java development as a mid-senior engineer (~10 years of experience). I have a good grasp of SQL, git, Spring, ... I do 35€/hr in central/southern

by tpxl 4y ago

I do backend Java development as a mid-senior engineer (~10 years of experience). I have a good grasp of SQL, git, Spring, ... I do 35€/hr in central/southern Europe, working for a local fintech company (2-3x what I'd get as wage). I plan on rising my rates later this year. I was in talks with a US company, and they balked when I requested 42$/hr as that was what they paid their employees from the US.

atraac 4y ago
I'm sorry for maybe being too frank but 35 eur/h is way too little. It's a bit below full time employment rates level even for Poland. You can get 40eur/h almost instantly anywhere. Some agencies are willing to pay up to 90eur/h for frontend devs as far as I've seen. It's much harder for backend development but 40-50eur is still easily obtainable. I'm looking right now and most offers come down to 40 eur/h for mid/senior .NET development.
- tpxl 4y ago
  Full time devs in Poland get 6k€ pre-tax? The best offer I got last time I searched was 4k€ pre-tax for full time where I live (~50k/year).
  - atraac 4y ago
    If you look through f.e. justjoin.it, most Senior offers are between 20-30k pln(4,2-6,3k eur), most western companies will offer you 40 eur/h from my recent experience which would amount to 6,4k eur/mo. I'm personally looking for something between 45-50 eur/h and I'm not having much luck, but I already had few 40 eur/h offers within last few days(for .NET). Also Dropbox opened in Poland and offers something around 30-35k pln/mo, at least that's what a friend got there.
jononor 4y ago
You should rise your rate to 2-4x that, and only bother talking to companies that accept such rates (possibly in other regions). If they haggle and you like them / the project, give a symbolic discount like 20%.
- tpxl 4y ago
  Where do you find work as a contractor btw? I tried LinkedIn and Hacker news, but didn't get that much uptake.
- atraac 4y ago
  I know you probably should request at least 80 eur/h as a freelance but finding a company willing to go for that out of nowhere is impossible. You need really good network to be able to do this. Chance of a company offering a random dude from the internet those rates is near zero. They can hire two cheap devs for that and profit much more, even if those developers will do worse job than you. A lot also depends on the stack you work in. .NET is not as hot as React f.e.
  - cutler 4y ago
    In the UK, according to Indeed.com, there are as many .Net jobs as Java. Comparing React with a back-end technology such as .Net is apples to oranges, no?
- ris58h 4y ago
  Are you speaking from the experience of polish contractor?
Darmody 4y ago
My uncle who's a mechanic, bills 35/40€/h and it's not expensive. If you go to any retail mechanic the rate won't be lower than 70€/h.
- tpxl 4y ago
  So does my mechanic, but he does a harder job and has 100k€ in tools. Also, a mechanic can only charge when he has customers, where I can do 8hrs/day for a single customer for ages. That being said, I know the rate is low comparatively for the wider market, but it's still high locally.
  - Darmody 4y ago
    Who charges when they have no customers? Who do they charge to?
    - tpxl 4y ago
      A mechanic gets a customer for 2 hours, then needs to spend time finding another. I get a customer for a year, then spend time finding another. Nobody charges when they have no customers, but some spend way more time finding them.
      - Darmody 4y ago
        A mechanic has multiple customers at the same time. If they were to work for 2 hours and then find another customer they'd be broke.

by tpxl 4y ago

atraac 4y ago

I'm sorry for maybe being too frank but 35 eur/h is way too little. It's a bit below full time employment rates level even for Poland. You can get 40eur/h almost instantly anywhere. Some agencies are willing to pay up to 90eur/h for frontend devs as far as I've seen. It's much harder for backend development but 40-50eur is still easily obtainable. I'm looking right now and most offers come down to 40 eur/h for mid/senior .NET development.

tpxl 4y ago
Full time devs in Poland get 6k€ pre-tax? The best offer I got last time I searched was 4k€ pre-tax for full time where I live (~50k/year).
- atraac 4y ago
  If you look through f.e. justjoin.it, most Senior offers are between 20-30k pln(4,2-6,3k eur), most western companies will offer you 40 eur/h from my recent experience which would amount to 6,4k eur/mo. I'm personally looking for something between 45-50 eur/h and I'm not having much luck, but I already had few 40 eur/h offers within last few days(for .NET). Also Dropbox opened in Poland and offers something around 30-35k pln/mo, at least that's what a friend got there.

jononor 4y ago

You should rise your rate to 2-4x that, and only bother talking to companies that accept such rates (possibly in other regions). If they haggle and you like them / the project, give a symbolic discount like 20%.

tpxl 4y ago
Where do you find work as a contractor btw? I tried LinkedIn and Hacker news, but didn't get that much uptake.
atraac 4y ago
I know you probably should request at least 80 eur/h as a freelance but finding a company willing to go for that out of nowhere is impossible. You need really good network to be able to do this. Chance of a company offering a random dude from the internet those rates is near zero. They can hire two cheap devs for that and profit much more, even if those developers will do worse job than you. A lot also depends on the stack you work in. .NET is not as hot as React f.e.
- cutler 4y ago
  In the UK, according to Indeed.com, there are as many .Net jobs as Java. Comparing React with a back-end technology such as .Net is apples to oranges, no?
ris58h 4y ago
Are you speaking from the experience of polish contractor?

Darmody 4y ago

My uncle who's a mechanic, bills 35/40€/h and it's not expensive. If you go to any retail mechanic the rate won't be lower than 70€/h.

tpxl 4y ago
So does my mechanic, but he does a harder job and has 100k€ in tools. Also, a mechanic can only charge when he has customers, where I can do 8hrs/day for a single customer for ages. That being said, I know the rate is low comparatively for the wider market, but it's still high locally.
- Darmody 4y ago
  Who charges when they have no customers? Who do they charge to?
  - tpxl 4y ago
    A mechanic gets a customer for 2 hours, then needs to spend time finding another. I get a customer for a year, then spend time finding another. Nobody charges when they have no customers, but some spend way more time finding them.
    - Darmody 4y ago
      A mechanic has multiple customers at the same time. If they were to work for 2 hours and then find another customer they'd be broke.