4 ms·

I would be particularly interested in hearing what "Full Stack Developers" charge in the UK. I recently started doing freelance/contract work but I'm not really

I would be particularly interested in hearing what "Full Stack Developers" charge in the UK. I recently started doing freelance/contract work but I'm not really sure what others similar to me change. (I'm particularly experienced (15 years) in Python/Django, JS/Vue, UI/UX)

lhnz 4y ago
Back in 2020, I was able to make £800 per day doing outside IR35 work. Similar level of experience but in TypeScript, React and Node. Working for an investment bank at the time; however you can get similar rates when working as a Tech Lead. At this rate, I was slightly outside of the normal range at lots of places. It helps if there is a Managing Director that knows you're decent as they can help to sign-off on higher rates. Unfortunately I found this almost impossible to regularly achieve because it takes time to build your network and show your worth. Having to constantly start again with zero reputation at every workplace I go to was one of the reasons I decided to stop contracting. The other reason was the downturn in the contractor market caused by the possibility of IR35 enforcement and the reaction to this by big risk-adverse companies.
- Silhouette 4y ago
  I'm impressed that you managed to get an outside IR35 role with an investment bank in 2020. The rate looks decent or even a little above average for the industry as you say. However IME 100% of big financial firms went umbrella to avoid the IR35 risks that were about to arrive (even if those risks then got deferred by a year) so in reality what they were offering was more equivalent to something in the low £600s outside IR35. Getting £800 for an outside gig would have been a good win at that time.
  - lhnz 4y ago
    I was still on an outside IR35 contract up until October 2020, and then on another at a financial firm on a slightly lower rate until April 2021. You are right though, that it was getting more and more difficult around then. At the first firm they stopped granting outside IR35 contracts during 2020, but were able to grant extensions if one was requested by somebody in leadership however eventually the extensions themselves were only allowed to be one week at a time so I left.
mjfisher 4y ago
It varies massively depending on seniority, company and location, but a representative range could be £400-£600 a day. Much above £600 tends to be for "multiplier" style roles that increase the output of other engineers, e.g. Devops or Tech Lead roles. I've actually stopped billing myself as a fullstack developer for contract work. Increasingly the companies which use contractors will be looking for front end or backend roles only.
dcminter 4y ago
Always worth taking a look at Jobserve - most contract gigs list rate ranges and a genuinely experienced person who ticks the required-skills boxes won't usually have much trouble getting the upper end. Depends a lot on location (London will be highest for most things).
badcppdev 4y ago
Are you willing to share what your rates are?
butler14 4y ago
I run a small digital agency, and agree with the £400-£600 a day range. You can obviously expect more premium £700-£1,000 day rates if you're working for banks or big four accounting firms, or if you have very specific or highly demanded skills (e.g. React)
- Silhouette 4y ago
  If you know places that are still routinely offering £700+ just for a decent React dev I know several people who'd appreciate pointers. It's certainly an in demand skill but also one that a lot of contractors have now and the UK market isn't what it used to be thanks to all the IR35 mess and lots of formerly big clients shutting down their contracting (or, usually even worse, forcing everyone under umbrellas).
shubb 4y ago
I don't know how realistic the data is as it's from ad scrapes but this site provides good stats for the UK market https://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/ https://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/ Probably very varied by geo / industry as well - from my experience as a permie 50 miles distance or working for one type of bank instead of another can do multiples on your salary.
Silhouette 4y ago
With that kind of experience level and assuming your abilities are consistent with it I'd agree with others that around £600 is a reasonable target. That's assuming you're finding work through a recruiter who will mark up the end client rate but working outside IR35. If you're willing and able to find clients directly you can push the rate up a bit because there won't be that middleman taking a cut for a while. If you're working inside IR35 (which almost always means via an umbrella company these days) then rates more like £700-750 are a reasonable target. The market has been taking a hit recently with all the uncertainty combined with the usual slowdown over the summer season so if you're looking today and you want a quick start then you might have to settle for less. But schools go back next week and everyone is back to work after holidays so then we'll find out how much of the drag has just been the usual seasonal slowness and how much might be with us for longer.
- porker 4y ago
  Seeing the numbers in this thread (even for Germany) and comparing to the UK is frankly depressing. My experience matches everyone else in this sub-thread, £650/day for years and finally reached £700/day. But as these are short term projects it averages to less. For 15 years experience it's not great. I don't have the option to move to the US but I'd like to pick up US clients remotely. It's the only way I see to earn more.
  - Silhouette 4y ago
    I don't have the option to move to the US but I'd like to pick up US clients remotely. We've (small UK development/consultancy shop) occasionally had US-based clients approach us about small projects. It's not something we'd actively explored until recently because of the potential legal and accounting complications. When we did finally look it turns out it's probably not so difficult after all though we haven't actually tried it for real yet. The rates that small outsourcing firms or individual contractors charge in the US are so much higher than the UK that a US client could get a bargain working with us while we could be charging much higher rates than we get from UK or European clients. Financially it's a situation where everyone could do well. I'm a bit surprised that we don't see more trans-Atlantic deals. Maybe a lack of awareness or concern around time zones means people don't really consider it an option? But even California is only an 8 hour gap so with almost everything being primarily remote and async today it should be possible to communicate effectively.

lhnz 4y ago

Back in 2020, I was able to make £800 per day doing outside IR35 work. Similar level of experience but in TypeScript, React and Node. Working for an investment bank at the time; however you can get similar rates when working as a Tech Lead. At this rate, I was slightly outside of the normal range at lots of places. It helps if there is a Managing Director that knows you're decent as they can help to sign-off on higher rates. Unfortunately I found this almost impossible to regularly achieve because it takes time to build your network and show your worth. Having to constantly start again with zero reputation at every workplace I go to was one of the reasons I decided to stop contracting. The other reason was the downturn in the contractor market caused by the possibility of IR35 enforcement and the reaction to this by big risk-adverse companies.

Silhouette 4y ago
I'm impressed that you managed to get an outside IR35 role with an investment bank in 2020. The rate looks decent or even a little above average for the industry as you say. However IME 100% of big financial firms went umbrella to avoid the IR35 risks that were about to arrive (even if those risks then got deferred by a year) so in reality what they were offering was more equivalent to something in the low £600s outside IR35. Getting £800 for an outside gig would have been a good win at that time.
- lhnz 4y ago
  I was still on an outside IR35 contract up until October 2020, and then on another at a financial firm on a slightly lower rate until April 2021. You are right though, that it was getting more and more difficult around then. At the first firm they stopped granting outside IR35 contracts during 2020, but were able to grant extensions if one was requested by somebody in leadership however eventually the extensions themselves were only allowed to be one week at a time so I left.

mjfisher 4y ago

It varies massively depending on seniority, company and location, but a representative range could be £400-£600 a day. Much above £600 tends to be for "multiplier" style roles that increase the output of other engineers, e.g. Devops or Tech Lead roles. I've actually stopped billing myself as a fullstack developer for contract work. Increasingly the companies which use contractors will be looking for front end or backend roles only.

dcminter 4y ago

Always worth taking a look at Jobserve - most contract gigs list rate ranges and a genuinely experienced person who ticks the required-skills boxes won't usually have much trouble getting the upper end. Depends a lot on location (London will be highest for most things).

badcppdev 4y ago

Are you willing to share what your rates are?

butler14 4y ago

I run a small digital agency, and agree with the £400-£600 a day range. You can obviously expect more premium £700-£1,000 day rates if you're working for banks or big four accounting firms, or if you have very specific or highly demanded skills (e.g. React)

Silhouette 4y ago
If you know places that are still routinely offering £700+ just for a decent React dev I know several people who'd appreciate pointers. It's certainly an in demand skill but also one that a lot of contractors have now and the UK market isn't what it used to be thanks to all the IR35 mess and lots of formerly big clients shutting down their contracting (or, usually even worse, forcing everyone under umbrellas).

shubb 4y ago

I don't know how realistic the data is as it's from ad scrapes but this site provides good stats for the UK market https://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/ https://www.itjobswatch.co.uk/ Probably very varied by geo / industry as well - from my experience as a permie 50 miles distance or working for one type of bank instead of another can do multiples on your salary.

Silhouette 4y ago

With that kind of experience level and assuming your abilities are consistent with it I'd agree with others that around £600 is a reasonable target. That's assuming you're finding work through a recruiter who will mark up the end client rate but working outside IR35. If you're willing and able to find clients directly you can push the rate up a bit because there won't be that middleman taking a cut for a while. If you're working inside IR35 (which almost always means via an umbrella company these days) then rates more like £700-750 are a reasonable target. The market has been taking a hit recently with all the uncertainty combined with the usual slowdown over the summer season so if you're looking today and you want a quick start then you might have to settle for less. But schools go back next week and everyone is back to work after holidays so then we'll find out how much of the drag has just been the usual seasonal slowness and how much might be with us for longer.

porker 4y ago
Seeing the numbers in this thread (even for Germany) and comparing to the UK is frankly depressing. My experience matches everyone else in this sub-thread, £650/day for years and finally reached £700/day. But as these are short term projects it averages to less. For 15 years experience it's not great. I don't have the option to move to the US but I'd like to pick up US clients remotely. It's the only way I see to earn more.
- Silhouette 4y ago
  I don't have the option to move to the US but I'd like to pick up US clients remotely. We've (small UK development/consultancy shop) occasionally had US-based clients approach us about small projects. It's not something we'd actively explored until recently because of the potential legal and accounting complications. When we did finally look it turns out it's probably not so difficult after all though we haven't actually tried it for real yet. The rates that small outsourcing firms or individual contractors charge in the US are so much higher than the UK that a US client could get a bargain working with us while we could be charging much higher rates than we get from UK or European clients. Financially it's a situation where everyone could do well. I'm a bit surprised that we don't see more trans-Atlantic deals. Maybe a lack of awareness or concern around time zones means people don't really consider it an option? But even California is only an 8 hour gap so with almost everything being primarily remote and async today it should be possible to communicate effectively.