4 ms·

Just a few comments: - the things you list are insanely expensive (just keep that in mind next time you say that nuclear power is expensive... you also need to

Just a few comments: - the things you list are insanely expensive (just keep that in mind next time you say that nuclear power is expensive... you also need to figure these costs in when comparing to EE, because you wouldn't need to do this with nuclear) - PV with battery storage is great for autarky and reducing fossils, but won't reduce the need for base load after a week without sun in winter, when all the batteries are empty.. - things like heat pumps that replace fossils will increase electricity consumption. I think current estimates are that electricity consumption may increase 50-100%. - there is just not a lot of potential for additional renewable base load in Germany. Bio gas, hydro, geothermal.. they are all pretty must at their limits. there is just no way around either burning fossils, using nuclear or having an insane amount of storage.

mschuster91 4y ago
> - the things you list are insanely expensive (just keep that in mind next time you say that nuclear power is expensive... you also need to figure these costs in when comparing to EE, because you wouldn't need to do this with nuclear) We absolutely need to do this anyway and fast, because there will not be any massive amount of new nuclear power going online - even if we were to start out a buildout offensive in nuclear plants, it would take ten to fifteen years at best, and we need to conserve as much energy as we can in the meantime. > - PV with battery storage is great for autarky and reducing fossils, but won't reduce the need for base load after a week without sun in winter, when all the batteries are empty.. Which is why industry needs to be incentivized to shut down in such times. China does it by force, we can offer financial incentives. > Bio gas, hydro, geothermal.. they are all pretty must at their limits. there is just no way around either burning fossils, using nuclear or having an insane amount of storage. Biogas has a lot of potential, as well as geothermal. We just need to get going after 16 years of sabotage by the conservatives.
- tjansen 4y ago
  > We absolutely need to do this anyway No. Only if we want to be the only major country in the civilised world that doesn't use nuclear power despite having not enough hydro power. > would take ten to fifteen years at best, This is extremely optimistic for wind power, and even more for rebuilding the electricity grid. Even if you can somehow shorten the planning processes: We are in the middle of a workers shortage and a supply-chain crisis. Who should build all these wind parks? And all the other things you listed, like building isolations and heat pumps. Shut down universities and require everybody to work in construction for a couple of years? > we need to conserve as much energy as we can in the meantime. Why? What's the outcome? Kill the economy? Who should pay for all these things? > Biogas has a lot of potential, as well as geothermal. Biogas needs agricultural land and thereby competes with food, and thus has other implications. Geothermal would be nice to have, and I think everybody agrees on that, but it's going nowhere. And as far I know not only in Germany, but everywhere.

mschuster91 4y ago

> - the things you list are insanely expensive (just keep that in mind next time you say that nuclear power is expensive... you also need to figure these costs in when comparing to EE, because you wouldn't need to do this with nuclear) We absolutely need to do this anyway and fast, because there will not be any massive amount of new nuclear power going online - even if we were to start out a buildout offensive in nuclear plants, it would take ten to fifteen years at best, and we need to conserve as much energy as we can in the meantime. > - PV with battery storage is great for autarky and reducing fossils, but won't reduce the need for base load after a week without sun in winter, when all the batteries are empty.. Which is why industry needs to be incentivized to shut down in such times. China does it by force, we can offer financial incentives. > Bio gas, hydro, geothermal.. they are all pretty must at their limits. there is just no way around either burning fossils, using nuclear or having an insane amount of storage. Biogas has a lot of potential, as well as geothermal. We just need to get going after 16 years of sabotage by the conservatives.

tjansen 4y ago
> We absolutely need to do this anyway No. Only if we want to be the only major country in the civilised world that doesn't use nuclear power despite having not enough hydro power. > would take ten to fifteen years at best, This is extremely optimistic for wind power, and even more for rebuilding the electricity grid. Even if you can somehow shorten the planning processes: We are in the middle of a workers shortage and a supply-chain crisis. Who should build all these wind parks? And all the other things you listed, like building isolations and heat pumps. Shut down universities and require everybody to work in construction for a couple of years? > we need to conserve as much energy as we can in the meantime. Why? What's the outcome? Kill the economy? Who should pay for all these things? > Biogas has a lot of potential, as well as geothermal. Biogas needs agricultural land and thereby competes with food, and thus has other implications. Geothermal would be nice to have, and I think everybody agrees on that, but it's going nowhere. And as far I know not only in Germany, but everywhere.