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> The team says that this battery design would be best suited to the scale of a few dozen kilowatt-hours, like powering an individual home from renewable source

> The team says that this battery design would be best suited to the scale of a few dozen kilowatt-hours, like powering an individual home from renewable sources. I'm curious to know if this would also be suitable for grid-scale storage, it seems like an odd ommision in the article. The description certainly implies that this would be a good use but I wonder if there is an issue that I'm not seeing that would make them less useful for that? Not being flamable sounds like a good thing for house and charging station level storage, although heat management might be an issue in smaller houses. I've always been a bit uncomfortable about the idea of a large li-ion battery pack in my house, given the difficulty of extinguishing fires that involve them, I'd be happier with something like this assuming the thermal management could be dealt with.

comboy 4y ago
> I've always been a bit uncomfortable about the idea of a large li-ion battery pack in my house So am I, but I think we're not different from people who are afraid of using planes. Yes, it's really bad when it happens, it just doesn't happen all that often and when it does it ends up in the news. Just like cars are more dangerous than planes even when you have li-ion battery it probably has very low impact on total probability of your house burning down because of other potential sources. Plus somehow people seem to be afraid of wall mounted battery while having no problem with EV car parked in the garage.
- giantg2 4y ago
  I guess it depends on how hard it is to move. At least when GM tells people not to park their Bolt inside or near flammable stuff, they can move it. I image it would be difficult to do that with a battery pack whether connected to the wall or not.
  - comboy 4y ago
    You could always mount it on wheels, which would be way way easier than moving a car that's on fire (you can even keep big wire cutters nearby) If fire hazard is what's stopping people I guess one could also build a fire-resistant brick cage around it (presumably just a shelf on top should be enough? so that it still can stay cool during normal operation)
    - giantg2 4y ago
      Especially since they tend to be installed in garages, that would be my plan if I get one. Building stuff with casters is something commonly do for my basement or garage. The idea isn't to move it when it's on fire, but that if a recall is issued, then you can at least move it out of the structure in case it does ignite.
      - lazide 4y ago
        That makes it a lot more likely to move and be damaged/catch on fire due to an earthquake though.
        giantg2 4y ago
        If you live in a region we're that is a concern, then the answer to this problem shojld also be appearent to you. You can still have it on casters and achor it in others ways, such as ratchet straps and floor anchors.
        lazide 4y ago
        In which case, there is zero need for casters. It’s easy to move even multi-ton stuff on flat floors with dowels.
        giantg2 4y ago
        Provided you can lift them on dowels, or that you leave them on.
        lazide 4y ago
        For anyone considering this - it’s a lot easier than you think, and with basic hand tools it takes minutes to move something as long as you can get a prybar under it and know the fundamentals. but if there is a chance you can tip it onto yourself (say, a large multi-ton safe), call some safe movers instead of doing it yourself. Don’t be red goo.
- tehbeard 4y ago
  Easier to make an impromptu firebreak between a car and the house, than a battery pack presumably securely mounted to the wall of the house.
tssva 4y ago
From the article itself: > Other types of batteries, such as a recent design using molten salt electrolyte and aluminum and nickel electrodes, could work better at grid scale.
- noneeeed 4y ago
  Huh, weird. I definitely read the article and just that bit just didn't register! Weird. Would still be interesting to see if this can be made to work well at grid scale, feels like we need as many different technologies so we minimise specific resource constraints.
giantg2 4y ago
I think I'd have even bigger concerns about a battery hitting 230F as part of normal operation in my house. Maybe they can create a dual use as a preheater for the water heater or something.
- Tagbert 4y ago
  That is not so different from the tank water heaters that most houses have. The water isn’t 230F but it is still a tank of very hot water sitting in your closet or basement. Insulation and isolation would be key.

comboy 4y ago

> I've always been a bit uncomfortable about the idea of a large li-ion battery pack in my house So am I, but I think we're not different from people who are afraid of using planes. Yes, it's really bad when it happens, it just doesn't happen all that often and when it does it ends up in the news. Just like cars are more dangerous than planes even when you have li-ion battery it probably has very low impact on total probability of your house burning down because of other potential sources. Plus somehow people seem to be afraid of wall mounted battery while having no problem with EV car parked in the garage.

giantg2 4y ago
I guess it depends on how hard it is to move. At least when GM tells people not to park their Bolt inside or near flammable stuff, they can move it. I image it would be difficult to do that with a battery pack whether connected to the wall or not.
- comboy 4y ago
  You could always mount it on wheels, which would be way way easier than moving a car that's on fire (you can even keep big wire cutters nearby) If fire hazard is what's stopping people I guess one could also build a fire-resistant brick cage around it (presumably just a shelf on top should be enough? so that it still can stay cool during normal operation)
  - giantg2 4y ago
    Especially since they tend to be installed in garages, that would be my plan if I get one. Building stuff with casters is something commonly do for my basement or garage. The idea isn't to move it when it's on fire, but that if a recall is issued, then you can at least move it out of the structure in case it does ignite.
    - lazide 4y ago
      That makes it a lot more likely to move and be damaged/catch on fire due to an earthquake though.
      - giantg2 4y ago
        If you live in a region we're that is a concern, then the answer to this problem shojld also be appearent to you. You can still have it on casters and achor it in others ways, such as ratchet straps and floor anchors.
        lazide 4y ago
        In which case, there is zero need for casters. It’s easy to move even multi-ton stuff on flat floors with dowels.
        giantg2 4y ago
        Provided you can lift them on dowels, or that you leave them on.
        lazide 4y ago
        For anyone considering this - it’s a lot easier than you think, and with basic hand tools it takes minutes to move something as long as you can get a prybar under it and know the fundamentals. but if there is a chance you can tip it onto yourself (say, a large multi-ton safe), call some safe movers instead of doing it yourself. Don’t be red goo.
tehbeard 4y ago
Easier to make an impromptu firebreak between a car and the house, than a battery pack presumably securely mounted to the wall of the house.

tssva 4y ago

From the article itself: > Other types of batteries, such as a recent design using molten salt electrolyte and aluminum and nickel electrodes, could work better at grid scale.

noneeeed 4y ago
Huh, weird. I definitely read the article and just that bit just didn't register! Weird. Would still be interesting to see if this can be made to work well at grid scale, feels like we need as many different technologies so we minimise specific resource constraints.

giantg2 4y ago

I think I'd have even bigger concerns about a battery hitting 230F as part of normal operation in my house. Maybe they can create a dual use as a preheater for the water heater or something.

Tagbert 4y ago
That is not so different from the tank water heaters that most houses have. The water isn’t 230F but it is still a tank of very hot water sitting in your closet or basement. Insulation and isolation would be key.