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> What on earth are people spending electricity on? I guess there are just a lot more appliances in use today and we're more lazy. When I, approaching my 40s,

> What on earth are people spending electricity on? I guess there are just a lot more appliances in use today and we're more lazy. When I, approaching my 40s, compare our household with my parents household when I was a child there a various notable changes in habits: - My mother hang the loundry to dry. We seldomly do this anymore, instead we're using a dryer. These things are insanely power-hungry. - Electronics for entertainment and communication: A landline phone, a TV (for the evening news), a radio + casette player. Now I'm powering/charging at least 10 devices (like mobile, laptop, smart watch, tablet) at any given time. - When dark outside, about 3 100W light bulbs would illumate the living space for 5 people. Now we have „power-saving” LEDs. But a lot of them. So many, I can't even compare them. - When it was hot, well, you endure it. Now we have three ventilators (others start to use ACs, which has always been a very awkward thing to do in Germany). Edit: I come to think, while a lot has to do with being lazy, another lot has to do with being selfish. Things like hanging the loundry. We use the dryer, so we safe time to do more productive things like working on our careers.

gmac 4y ago
I find people’s continued use of tumble dryers pretty surprising. The air will do it for free! We have a space-efficient drying rack so we can dry indoors.
- mijamo 4y ago
  Air drying clothes indoor is pretty bad. It is slow, takes space, and leaves textile in a bad state (at least for cotton and wool). Drying outside is good but not possible everywhere and not always. Also things like sheets and towels really should not be left to dry indoor.
  - mathieuh 4y ago
    I live in a place where it rains all the time and the driest month in terms of humidity is 80%, sometimes if I can’t hang things outside clothes take so long to dry inside that I end up having to wash them again because they start to smell
  - depressedpanda 4y ago
    > Air drying clothes indoor is pretty bad [because it] leaves textile in a bad state (at least for cotton and wool). > Also things like sheets and towels really should not be left to dry indoor. Can you elaborate on both statements? I currently leave everything, including sheets and towels, to air dry indoors.
    - emn13 4y ago
      Not the OP, but indoor drying in winter at least where I live has the issue that (a) it tends to be so slow that the wash sometimes starts smelling stale, (b) it's just extracting heat from the house by evaporation, so it's going to raise your heating bills anyhow, perhaps? (c) you might end up having issues with indoor humidity, such as moldy walls. Heat pump or condensing dryers may well be a better option. Almost certainly the perfect solution will be situational. I mean, if your house is too dry in the winter, a bit of extra humidity might even be a feature, after all...
      - tpxl 4y ago
        > you might end up having issues with indoor humidity Winter air tends to be much drier than summer air, so much so that my bath towels dry on the rack in the winter overnight, but may stay damp for a whole day in the summer. That said, water will condense at heat bridges (?)(poorly/not insulated parts of the wall) in the winter, causing mold, if the place is poorly insulated.
        FalconSensei 4y ago
        > Winter air tends to be much drier than summer air Where I lived before, that's still 80% (usually 90-95% in summer)
        hexane360 4y ago
        That's relative humidity, not absolute. Absolute humidity has an additional Arrhenius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhenius_equation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhenius_equation) factor. For instance, 100% relative humidity at 40 C is 51.1 g/cm^3, while at 20 C it's only 17.3 g/cm^3.
  - simiones 4y ago
    It greatly depends on where you live, and season. In my apartment in Bucharest, especially during the summer, clothes dry indoors in ~4h, and a bed sheet takes maybe 6h. In the winter, the time is usually double. Still, drying clothes indoors has no ill effects, I have no idea where you got this. It's definitely better than exposing them to high temperatures like in most apartment tumble driers.
    - krisoft 4y ago
      > during the summer, clothes dry indoors in ~4h, > drying clothes indoors has no ill effects Maybe the first is why you think the second is always true? Where I live if I just leave laundry on a drying rack it won't dry for days, and once it is dryish it already smells stale and mouldy. I'm glad that it works for you, but maybe the advice differs based on location, climate, maybe even architectural choices.
      - simiones 4y ago
        You're right, I do understand that if it takes days to dry, the dampness has a good chance of allowing mold to form, and that can be extremely harmful.
      - morsch 4y ago
        That's literally what they said in their first sentence.
        krisoft 4y ago
        Yes, and no. They started out right and acknowledged that things can be different in different climates. But then in their second paragraph they made a categorical statement: “Still, drying clothes indoors has no ill effects, I have no idea where you got this.” That is a general statement. They don’t think drying clothes indoors can have any ill effects. Ever. At any humidity level. So they realise that the drying time can change quantitatively. What they miss is that there are qualitative effects which can happen too. And in their hurry they dismiss other people’s lived experience.
- jansan 4y ago
  You can also shower in the rain. I have seen people doing it in the 90s in Hannover on the occupied "Sprengelgelände".
  - Symbiote 4y ago
    Clothes and bedclothes dried outside are much nicer than the same dried in a tumble dryer. I don't have space (I live in an apartment), but I regularly did this in England. It takes slightly more time to hang them out vs. stuff them in the dryer, and (in England) you need to keep an eye on the weather, but they end up smelling fresher. A good dose of UV light probably helps.
    - newaccount74 4y ago
      UV is also great at making some food stains disappear.
boredumb 4y ago
Why are ACs awkward in Germany?
- morelisp 4y ago
  I don't know if it's what the OP meant but the standard "German window" is a shape that makes an AC a lot more difficult than in e.g. the US. You can't mount it in the window directly and the insulation required is relatively irregular. https://deine-mobile-klimaanlage.de/abluftschlauch/ https://deine-mobile-klimaanlage.de/abluftschlauch/ Anecdotally, doors within an apartment/house are also far less airtight than in the US. (Germans take airflow in homes extremely seriously; es zieht / frische Luft! is perhaps the fundamental contradiction in the German culture.)
- jhoechtl 4y ago
  Because they are power-hungry and everyone knows that. More generally because the climate in central Europe is not like Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, California but hospitable during the summer season without AC. AC makes it more comfortable during hot days but it is still doable without. This is only true for private households. Since 10 years ACs are widely used in a business environment.
  - tartoran 4y ago
    Meanwhile during the summer momnths offices in the US turn on the AC to such low temperatures that one needs to put on a sweater.
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      Remember that when you're too hot in an office, there's really nothing you can do about it and you just have to suffer. At least you have the option to do things like put on a sweater when you're too cold. Given that, it seems to make sense to keep the office at the coolest temperature preferred by anyone in it.
      - lostlogin 4y ago
korse 4y ago
Also, traditional landline phones (no hands free short range radio etc) draw power from the telecom central office. They aren't on your standard grid so you are effectively paying for that electricity on your phone bill.

gmac 4y ago

I find people’s continued use of tumble dryers pretty surprising. The air will do it for free! We have a space-efficient drying rack so we can dry indoors.

mijamo 4y ago
Air drying clothes indoor is pretty bad. It is slow, takes space, and leaves textile in a bad state (at least for cotton and wool). Drying outside is good but not possible everywhere and not always. Also things like sheets and towels really should not be left to dry indoor.
- mathieuh 4y ago
  I live in a place where it rains all the time and the driest month in terms of humidity is 80%, sometimes if I can’t hang things outside clothes take so long to dry inside that I end up having to wash them again because they start to smell
- depressedpanda 4y ago
  > Air drying clothes indoor is pretty bad [because it] leaves textile in a bad state (at least for cotton and wool). > Also things like sheets and towels really should not be left to dry indoor. Can you elaborate on both statements? I currently leave everything, including sheets and towels, to air dry indoors.
  - emn13 4y ago
    Not the OP, but indoor drying in winter at least where I live has the issue that (a) it tends to be so slow that the wash sometimes starts smelling stale, (b) it's just extracting heat from the house by evaporation, so it's going to raise your heating bills anyhow, perhaps? (c) you might end up having issues with indoor humidity, such as moldy walls. Heat pump or condensing dryers may well be a better option. Almost certainly the perfect solution will be situational. I mean, if your house is too dry in the winter, a bit of extra humidity might even be a feature, after all...
    - tpxl 4y ago
      > you might end up having issues with indoor humidity Winter air tends to be much drier than summer air, so much so that my bath towels dry on the rack in the winter overnight, but may stay damp for a whole day in the summer. That said, water will condense at heat bridges (?)(poorly/not insulated parts of the wall) in the winter, causing mold, if the place is poorly insulated.
      - FalconSensei 4y ago
        > Winter air tends to be much drier than summer air Where I lived before, that's still 80% (usually 90-95% in summer)
        hexane360 4y ago
        That's relative humidity, not absolute. Absolute humidity has an additional Arrhenius (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhenius_equation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrhenius_equation) factor. For instance, 100% relative humidity at 40 C is 51.1 g/cm^3, while at 20 C it's only 17.3 g/cm^3.
- simiones 4y ago
  It greatly depends on where you live, and season. In my apartment in Bucharest, especially during the summer, clothes dry indoors in ~4h, and a bed sheet takes maybe 6h. In the winter, the time is usually double. Still, drying clothes indoors has no ill effects, I have no idea where you got this. It's definitely better than exposing them to high temperatures like in most apartment tumble driers.
  - krisoft 4y ago
    > during the summer, clothes dry indoors in ~4h, > drying clothes indoors has no ill effects Maybe the first is why you think the second is always true? Where I live if I just leave laundry on a drying rack it won't dry for days, and once it is dryish it already smells stale and mouldy. I'm glad that it works for you, but maybe the advice differs based on location, climate, maybe even architectural choices.
    - simiones 4y ago
      You're right, I do understand that if it takes days to dry, the dampness has a good chance of allowing mold to form, and that can be extremely harmful.
    - morsch 4y ago
      That's literally what they said in their first sentence.
      - krisoft 4y ago
        Yes, and no. They started out right and acknowledged that things can be different in different climates. But then in their second paragraph they made a categorical statement: “Still, drying clothes indoors has no ill effects, I have no idea where you got this.” That is a general statement. They don’t think drying clothes indoors can have any ill effects. Ever. At any humidity level. So they realise that the drying time can change quantitatively. What they miss is that there are qualitative effects which can happen too. And in their hurry they dismiss other people’s lived experience.
jansan 4y ago
You can also shower in the rain. I have seen people doing it in the 90s in Hannover on the occupied "Sprengelgelände".
- Symbiote 4y ago
  Clothes and bedclothes dried outside are much nicer than the same dried in a tumble dryer. I don't have space (I live in an apartment), but I regularly did this in England. It takes slightly more time to hang them out vs. stuff them in the dryer, and (in England) you need to keep an eye on the weather, but they end up smelling fresher. A good dose of UV light probably helps.
  - newaccount74 4y ago
    UV is also great at making some food stains disappear.

boredumb 4y ago

Why are ACs awkward in Germany?

morelisp 4y ago
I don't know if it's what the OP meant but the standard "German window" is a shape that makes an AC a lot more difficult than in e.g. the US. You can't mount it in the window directly and the insulation required is relatively irregular. https://deine-mobile-klimaanlage.de/abluftschlauch/ https://deine-mobile-klimaanlage.de/abluftschlauch/ Anecdotally, doors within an apartment/house are also far less airtight than in the US. (Germans take airflow in homes extremely seriously; es zieht / frische Luft! is perhaps the fundamental contradiction in the German culture.)
jhoechtl 4y ago
Because they are power-hungry and everyone knows that. More generally because the climate in central Europe is not like Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, California but hospitable during the summer season without AC. AC makes it more comfortable during hot days but it is still doable without. This is only true for private households. Since 10 years ACs are widely used in a business environment.
- tartoran 4y ago
  Meanwhile during the summer momnths offices in the US turn on the AC to such low temperatures that one needs to put on a sweater.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    Remember that when you're too hot in an office, there's really nothing you can do about it and you just have to suffer. At least you have the option to do things like put on a sweater when you're too cold. Given that, it seems to make sense to keep the office at the coolest temperature preferred by anyone in it.
    - lostlogin 4y ago

korse 4y ago

Also, traditional landline phones (no hands free short range radio etc) draw power from the telecom central office. They aren't on your standard grid so you are effectively paying for that electricity on your phone bill.