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That's pretty crazy. We used to spend 1400 KWh as a family of three. Didn't check the latest numbers as a family of four, but I don't expect a lot more. We even

That's pretty crazy. We used to spend 1400 KWh as a family of three. Didn't check the latest numbers as a family of four, but I don't expect a lot more. We even cook / bake a lot. What on earth are people spending electricity on?

chrisandchris 4y ago
How do you heat your appartmen/house? There might be quite some differences between oil, gas or heat-pump. I'm not sure whether these numbers include/exclude that part.
polycaster 4y ago
> What on earth are people spending electricity on? I guess there are just a lot more appliances in use today and we're more lazy. When I, approaching my 40s, compare our household with my parents household when I was a child there a various notable changes in habits: - My mother hang the loundry to dry. We seldomly do this anymore, instead we're using a dryer. These things are insanely power-hungry. - Electronics for entertainment and communication: A landline phone, a TV (for the evening news), a radio + casette player. Now I'm powering/charging at least 10 devices (like mobile, laptop, smart watch, tablet) at any given time. - When dark outside, about 3 100W light bulbs would illumate the living space for 5 people. Now we have „power-saving” LEDs. But a lot of them. So many, I can't even compare them. - When it was hot, well, you endure it. Now we have three ventilators (others start to use ACs, which has always been a very awkward thing to do in Germany). Edit: I come to think, while a lot has to do with being lazy, another lot has to do with being selfish. Things like hanging the loundry. We use the dryer, so we safe time to do more productive things like working on our careers.
- gmac 4y ago
  I find people’s continued use of tumble dryers pretty surprising. The air will do it for free! We have a space-efficient drying rack so we can dry indoors.
  - mijamo 4y ago
    Air drying clothes indoor is pretty bad. It is slow, takes space, and leaves textile in a bad state (at least for cotton and wool). Drying outside is good but not possible everywhere and not always. Also things like sheets and towels really should not be left to dry indoor.
    - mathieuh 4y ago
      I live in a place where it rains all the time and the driest month in terms of humidity is 80%, sometimes if I can’t hang things outside clothes take so long to dry inside that I end up having to wash them again because they start to smell
    - depressedpanda 4y ago
      > Air drying clothes indoor is pretty bad [because it] leaves textile in a bad state (at least for cotton and wool). > Also things like sheets and towels really should not be left to dry indoor. Can you elaborate on both statements? I currently leave everything, including sheets and towels, to air dry indoors.
      - emn13 4y ago
        Not the OP, but indoor drying in winter at least where I live has the issue that (a) it tends to be so slow that the wash sometimes starts smelling stale, (b) it's just extracting heat from the house by evaporation, so it's going to raise your heating bills anyhow, perhaps? (c) you might end up having issues with indoor humidity, such as moldy walls. Heat pump or condensing dryers may well be a better option. Almost certainly the perfect solution will be situational. I mean, if your house is too dry in the winter, a bit of extra humidity might even be a feature, after all...
        tpxl 4y ago
        > you might end up having issues with indoor humidity Winter air tends to be much drier than summer air, so much so that my bath towels dry on the rack in the winter overnight, but may stay damp for a whole day in the summer. That said, water will condense at heat bridges (?)(poorly/not insulated parts of the wall) in the winter, causing mold, if the place is poorly insulated.
- boredumb 4y ago
  Why are ACs awkward in Germany?
  - morelisp 4y ago
    I don't know if it's what the OP meant but the standard "German window" is a shape that makes an AC a lot more difficult than in e.g. the US. You can't mount it in the window directly and the insulation required is relatively irregular. https://deine-mobile-klimaanlage.de/abluftschlauch/ https://deine-mobile-klimaanlage.de/abluftschlauch/ Anecdotally, doors within an apartment/house are also far less airtight than in the US. (Germans take airflow in homes extremely seriously; es zieht / frische Luft! is perhaps the fundamental contradiction in the German culture.)
  - jhoechtl 4y ago
    Because they are power-hungry and everyone knows that. More generally because the climate in central Europe is not like Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, California but hospitable during the summer season without AC. AC makes it more comfortable during hot days but it is still doable without. This is only true for private households. Since 10 years ACs are widely used in a business environment.
    - tartoran 4y ago
      Meanwhile during the summer momnths offices in the US turn on the AC to such low temperatures that one needs to put on a sweater.
      - josephcsible 4y ago
        Remember that when you're too hot in an office, there's really nothing you can do about it and you just have to suffer. At least you have the option to do things like put on a sweater when you're too cold. Given that, it seems to make sense to keep the office at the coolest temperature preferred by anyone in it.
        lostlogin 4y ago
- korse 4y ago
  Also, traditional landline phones (no hands free short range radio etc) draw power from the telecom central office. They aren't on your standard grid so you are effectively paying for that electricity on your phone bill.
Xylakant 4y ago
The numbers cited here included electricity for warm water and heating. Both are outrageously energy-intensive. The figured for electric appliances only are roughly in line with yours.
bluescrn 4y ago
Home server PC at around 100W. That adds a surprising amount, on it's own that's getting close to 1000KWh to run for a year. And then there's the main PC setup, running maybe 12hrs a day (inc. WFH). And that was build for gaming, so it's quite power-hungry, especially when the GPU is kept busy, working on Unity projects.
- iforgotpassword 4y ago
  But on average? Does the average person have a home server? A desktop PC? I don't know any non-techy person who isn't using a laptop exclusively, and then pretty rarely, as most things nowadays happen on the smart phone. AC is non-existent in Germany. So I'm really curious. I have a 24/7 Homeserver and laptop, and am at ~1200kwh a year.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    I'd agree normal people don't have those things, but also add that things not mentioned — e.g. TVs, ovens, and fridge/freezers — will add up. At such a low average, even lighting will contribute non-negligibly. Two questions though: how common are TVs in Germany? And how common is electric hot water for showers/baths? My sample size is pretty small (and mostly limited to Berlin).
    - iforgotpassword 4y ago
      I'd say TVs are still the norm, my social circle is 30~50 and o think everyone got one, for streaming mostly. As for the older generation it's also still a thing you just need to have. As for sizes, I think they've also increased over the last decade or two, but at least in the cities if you're limited to a smaller place I think people go for 40 rather than 50 inches. Can't really speak for the younger generations, but I feel they're more comfortable watching stuff on their phones, college students probably also due to financial or space reasons. Hot water mostly comes from central heating with gas, some homes in my city have district heating. At least up until now, electric heating, be it for water or the whole apartment was way to expensive so that you'd only consider that if you really have no other choice, for example, an old building from 100+ years ago with retrofitted central heating might have an electric water heater for the kitchens as they only did the bathrooms.

chrisandchris 4y ago

How do you heat your appartmen/house? There might be quite some differences between oil, gas or heat-pump. I'm not sure whether these numbers include/exclude that part.

polycaster 4y ago

> What on earth are people spending electricity on? I guess there are just a lot more appliances in use today and we're more lazy. When I, approaching my 40s, compare our household with my parents household when I was a child there a various notable changes in habits: - My mother hang the loundry to dry. We seldomly do this anymore, instead we're using a dryer. These things are insanely power-hungry. - Electronics for entertainment and communication: A landline phone, a TV (for the evening news), a radio + casette player. Now I'm powering/charging at least 10 devices (like mobile, laptop, smart watch, tablet) at any given time. - When dark outside, about 3 100W light bulbs would illumate the living space for 5 people. Now we have „power-saving” LEDs. But a lot of them. So many, I can't even compare them. - When it was hot, well, you endure it. Now we have three ventilators (others start to use ACs, which has always been a very awkward thing to do in Germany). Edit: I come to think, while a lot has to do with being lazy, another lot has to do with being selfish. Things like hanging the loundry. We use the dryer, so we safe time to do more productive things like working on our careers.

gmac 4y ago
I find people’s continued use of tumble dryers pretty surprising. The air will do it for free! We have a space-efficient drying rack so we can dry indoors.
- mijamo 4y ago
  Air drying clothes indoor is pretty bad. It is slow, takes space, and leaves textile in a bad state (at least for cotton and wool). Drying outside is good but not possible everywhere and not always. Also things like sheets and towels really should not be left to dry indoor.
  - mathieuh 4y ago
    I live in a place where it rains all the time and the driest month in terms of humidity is 80%, sometimes if I can’t hang things outside clothes take so long to dry inside that I end up having to wash them again because they start to smell
  - depressedpanda 4y ago
    > Air drying clothes indoor is pretty bad [because it] leaves textile in a bad state (at least for cotton and wool). > Also things like sheets and towels really should not be left to dry indoor. Can you elaborate on both statements? I currently leave everything, including sheets and towels, to air dry indoors.
    - emn13 4y ago
      Not the OP, but indoor drying in winter at least where I live has the issue that (a) it tends to be so slow that the wash sometimes starts smelling stale, (b) it's just extracting heat from the house by evaporation, so it's going to raise your heating bills anyhow, perhaps? (c) you might end up having issues with indoor humidity, such as moldy walls. Heat pump or condensing dryers may well be a better option. Almost certainly the perfect solution will be situational. I mean, if your house is too dry in the winter, a bit of extra humidity might even be a feature, after all...
      - tpxl 4y ago
        > you might end up having issues with indoor humidity Winter air tends to be much drier than summer air, so much so that my bath towels dry on the rack in the winter overnight, but may stay damp for a whole day in the summer. That said, water will condense at heat bridges (?)(poorly/not insulated parts of the wall) in the winter, causing mold, if the place is poorly insulated.
boredumb 4y ago
Why are ACs awkward in Germany?
- morelisp 4y ago
  I don't know if it's what the OP meant but the standard "German window" is a shape that makes an AC a lot more difficult than in e.g. the US. You can't mount it in the window directly and the insulation required is relatively irregular. https://deine-mobile-klimaanlage.de/abluftschlauch/ https://deine-mobile-klimaanlage.de/abluftschlauch/ Anecdotally, doors within an apartment/house are also far less airtight than in the US. (Germans take airflow in homes extremely seriously; es zieht / frische Luft! is perhaps the fundamental contradiction in the German culture.)
- jhoechtl 4y ago
  Because they are power-hungry and everyone knows that. More generally because the climate in central Europe is not like Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, California but hospitable during the summer season without AC. AC makes it more comfortable during hot days but it is still doable without. This is only true for private households. Since 10 years ACs are widely used in a business environment.
  - tartoran 4y ago
    Meanwhile during the summer momnths offices in the US turn on the AC to such low temperatures that one needs to put on a sweater.
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      Remember that when you're too hot in an office, there's really nothing you can do about it and you just have to suffer. At least you have the option to do things like put on a sweater when you're too cold. Given that, it seems to make sense to keep the office at the coolest temperature preferred by anyone in it.
      - lostlogin 4y ago
korse 4y ago
Also, traditional landline phones (no hands free short range radio etc) draw power from the telecom central office. They aren't on your standard grid so you are effectively paying for that electricity on your phone bill.

Xylakant 4y ago

The numbers cited here included electricity for warm water and heating. Both are outrageously energy-intensive. The figured for electric appliances only are roughly in line with yours.

bluescrn 4y ago

Home server PC at around 100W. That adds a surprising amount, on it's own that's getting close to 1000KWh to run for a year. And then there's the main PC setup, running maybe 12hrs a day (inc. WFH). And that was build for gaming, so it's quite power-hungry, especially when the GPU is kept busy, working on Unity projects.

iforgotpassword 4y ago
But on average? Does the average person have a home server? A desktop PC? I don't know any non-techy person who isn't using a laptop exclusively, and then pretty rarely, as most things nowadays happen on the smart phone. AC is non-existent in Germany. So I'm really curious. I have a 24/7 Homeserver and laptop, and am at ~1200kwh a year.
- ben_w 4y ago
  I'd agree normal people don't have those things, but also add that things not mentioned — e.g. TVs, ovens, and fridge/freezers — will add up. At such a low average, even lighting will contribute non-negligibly. Two questions though: how common are TVs in Germany? And how common is electric hot water for showers/baths? My sample size is pretty small (and mostly limited to Berlin).
  - iforgotpassword 4y ago
    I'd say TVs are still the norm, my social circle is 30~50 and o think everyone got one, for streaming mostly. As for the older generation it's also still a thing you just need to have. As for sizes, I think they've also increased over the last decade or two, but at least in the cities if you're limited to a smaller place I think people go for 40 rather than 50 inches. Can't really speak for the younger generations, but I feel they're more comfortable watching stuff on their phones, college students probably also due to financial or space reasons. Hot water mostly comes from central heating with gas, some homes in my city have district heating. At least up until now, electric heating, be it for water or the whole apartment was way to expensive so that you'd only consider that if you really have no other choice, for example, an old building from 100+ years ago with retrofitted central heating might have an electric water heater for the kitchens as they only did the bathrooms.