6 ms·

Pretty odd that it's forced to display such a sign, after all, they arent free. Who pays for them? Whether it's the state or school, it'd be pretty expensive.

mrex 4y ago
Why is it odd that regulations would require public schools to display the motto of the United States, or the flag of the United States, or any of that? These things seem like exactly what every country does. [edit - This comment is currently at -2, less than 10 minutes after posting it. HN, you're changing, and not for the better...] [edit #2 - I don't think this has been a very good thread at all.]
- arethuza 4y ago
  I don't remember any flags or mottos from my time at school in Scotland - mind you was a while ago.
  - mrex 4y ago
    I can remember seeing flags in front of schools in every country I've visited, several in the Americas, several in Asia, and several in MENA.
- jamienicol 4y ago
  It's certainly not normal in my country for schools to display the country's motto or flag, nor do children pledge allegiance to anything. We did sing some hymns though.
  - mrex 4y ago
    >It's certainly not normal in my country for schools to display the country's motto or flag Wow, really? Can I ask what country? In my state it's illegal for the leader of a school to neglect or refuse to display the flag: https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3313.80 https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3313.80 ...maybe this is a US thing?
    - BreakfastB0b 4y ago
      We don’t do anything like this in Australia. I can’t imagine being forced every morning to pledge something you’re not old enough to understand.
      - Taniwha 4y ago
        not in NZ either, we sang hymns in school assembly when I was a kid but these days more that half of us don't believe in religion - you have to choose to pay to go to a special school if you want to be taught god stuff, which is as it should be
    - arlcode 4y ago
      This may not come as a surprise but Germany is neither doing flags, nor anthem singing or any kind of pledge. The day begins with "Good morning" - "Good morning Ms/Mr X". And being a secular country there is no prayer in school either (however there is religion as a school subject if you are a member of one of the major churches (+ sometimes Islam is offered as well)) or ethics if you are not.
      - mrex 4y ago
        Germany is less surprising to me, given the history involved. Based on what I am looking into on Google Maps, however, it hardly seems to be a phenomenon confined to the US, and at least based on my spot checks it seems to be more common than not for public schools to display national flags.
        feet 4y ago
        >given the history involved. It's almost like other countries could learn from that history of extreme nationalism. The US especially
        mrex 4y ago
        We taught the lesson on this, didn't we?
  - arethuza 4y ago
    We sang lots of hymns - but being Church of Scotland you weren't allowed to enjoy them.
- cafard 4y ago
  I don't think I've ever seen "In God We Trust" on anything but US currency. I have heard of merchants putting up signs saying "In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash", but have never seen such a sign. And I did attend schools that had the pledge of allegiance.
- vineyardmike 4y ago
  You want a real answer? Because it’s a religious motto. It’s not just the national motto. AND as mentioned by another comment, the specific law in question was explicitly created to push Christianity onto school kids, according to the creators. And pushing religion on someone in school is against americas stated ideals.
- xorcist 4y ago
  > These things seem like exactly what every country does There are other countries to compare yourself with, no need to pick China and Iran. Very few countries have these types of laws, and it would be straight up unconstitutional in many western democracies.
hulitu 4y ago
Some people have a family to feed, you know. Even paperclips can get pretty expensive, depending on what are they used.
vineyardmike 4y ago
The law specifically says the poster should be displayed if donated with private funds. It’s a stupid law, but at least it doesn’t waste the schools money.
- eesmith 4y ago
  It say a sign must be displayed, not should. It still wastes school money. Who installs the sign? Who cleans it? Who prevents it from being defaced? And where do their salaries come from?
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    Eh, that's pretty fallacious reasoning. No one's going to hire a specialist to put up a poster, and it's not like a school is going to allow someone to deface whatever else is on the walls, so it's not like any extra effort would be expended there. Whatever labor required would almost certainly have been expended on some other too-insignificant-to-track task (like putting up yet another "go sports team!"/"officer friendly is your friend!" poster), so it's just a substitute X with Y type thing.
    - eesmith 4y ago
      It's not fallacious. You even agree that it costs the school money. You are correct that it's a small amount, but it's still a cost to the school. If it doesn't benefit the school then it's a waste of the school's money. Also, most school boosterism/Officer-friendly type posters aren't framed, while this law requires the school to put up a framed poster if that's what someone donates. I wonder what the school will do if it's framed in glass.
      - tablespoon 4y ago
        > It's not fallacious. You even agree that it costs the school money. It's not going to cost them money unless they're actually going to spend more, and they won't. Putting up one poster instead of another isn't spending more, preventing vandalism you're already preventing isn't spending more, etc.

mrex 4y ago

Why is it odd that regulations would require public schools to display the motto of the United States, or the flag of the United States, or any of that? These things seem like exactly what every country does. [edit - This comment is currently at -2, less than 10 minutes after posting it. HN, you're changing, and not for the better...] [edit #2 - I don't think this has been a very good thread at all.]

arethuza 4y ago
I don't remember any flags or mottos from my time at school in Scotland - mind you was a while ago.
- mrex 4y ago
  I can remember seeing flags in front of schools in every country I've visited, several in the Americas, several in Asia, and several in MENA.
jamienicol 4y ago
It's certainly not normal in my country for schools to display the country's motto or flag, nor do children pledge allegiance to anything. We did sing some hymns though.
- mrex 4y ago
  >It's certainly not normal in my country for schools to display the country's motto or flag Wow, really? Can I ask what country? In my state it's illegal for the leader of a school to neglect or refuse to display the flag: https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3313.80 https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-3313.80 ...maybe this is a US thing?
  - BreakfastB0b 4y ago
    We don’t do anything like this in Australia. I can’t imagine being forced every morning to pledge something you’re not old enough to understand.
    - Taniwha 4y ago
      not in NZ either, we sang hymns in school assembly when I was a kid but these days more that half of us don't believe in religion - you have to choose to pay to go to a special school if you want to be taught god stuff, which is as it should be
  - arlcode 4y ago
    This may not come as a surprise but Germany is neither doing flags, nor anthem singing or any kind of pledge. The day begins with "Good morning" - "Good morning Ms/Mr X". And being a secular country there is no prayer in school either (however there is religion as a school subject if you are a member of one of the major churches (+ sometimes Islam is offered as well)) or ethics if you are not.
    - mrex 4y ago
      Germany is less surprising to me, given the history involved. Based on what I am looking into on Google Maps, however, it hardly seems to be a phenomenon confined to the US, and at least based on my spot checks it seems to be more common than not for public schools to display national flags.
      - feet 4y ago
        >given the history involved. It's almost like other countries could learn from that history of extreme nationalism. The US especially
        mrex 4y ago
        We taught the lesson on this, didn't we?
- arethuza 4y ago
  We sang lots of hymns - but being Church of Scotland you weren't allowed to enjoy them.
cafard 4y ago
I don't think I've ever seen "In God We Trust" on anything but US currency. I have heard of merchants putting up signs saying "In God We Trust, All Others Pay Cash", but have never seen such a sign. And I did attend schools that had the pledge of allegiance.
vineyardmike 4y ago
You want a real answer? Because it’s a religious motto. It’s not just the national motto. AND as mentioned by another comment, the specific law in question was explicitly created to push Christianity onto school kids, according to the creators. And pushing religion on someone in school is against americas stated ideals.
xorcist 4y ago
> These things seem like exactly what every country does There are other countries to compare yourself with, no need to pick China and Iran. Very few countries have these types of laws, and it would be straight up unconstitutional in many western democracies.

hulitu 4y ago

Some people have a family to feed, you know. Even paperclips can get pretty expensive, depending on what are they used.

vineyardmike 4y ago

The law specifically says the poster should be displayed if donated with private funds. It’s a stupid law, but at least it doesn’t waste the schools money.

eesmith 4y ago
It say a sign must be displayed, not should. It still wastes school money. Who installs the sign? Who cleans it? Who prevents it from being defaced? And where do their salaries come from?
- tablespoon 4y ago
  Eh, that's pretty fallacious reasoning. No one's going to hire a specialist to put up a poster, and it's not like a school is going to allow someone to deface whatever else is on the walls, so it's not like any extra effort would be expended there. Whatever labor required would almost certainly have been expended on some other too-insignificant-to-track task (like putting up yet another "go sports team!"/"officer friendly is your friend!" poster), so it's just a substitute X with Y type thing.
  - eesmith 4y ago
    It's not fallacious. You even agree that it costs the school money. You are correct that it's a small amount, but it's still a cost to the school. If it doesn't benefit the school then it's a waste of the school's money. Also, most school boosterism/Officer-friendly type posters aren't framed, while this law requires the school to put up a framed poster if that's what someone donates. I wonder what the school will do if it's framed in glass.
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      > It's not fallacious. You even agree that it costs the school money. It's not going to cost them money unless they're actually going to spend more, and they won't. Putting up one poster instead of another isn't spending more, preventing vandalism you're already preventing isn't spending more, etc.