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As someone who has been using 1Password from almost the very beginning, I think the issue with the forum stuff is trust. If you're trusting a company to store y

As someone who has been using 1Password from almost the very beginning, I think the issue with the forum stuff is trust. If you're trusting a company to store your passwords and credentials in the cloud, then there's a certain level of transparency and openness that's required. I also have not had any issues with the subscription model, despite using standalone vaults for as long as possible, and the performance is fine for me on v8 (but I also have the newest Macbook with max RAM so that might not be the case for people on older/less-capable machines). I, personally, am not happy about the way that this or the subscription update have been handled because, to me, it makes me question how they would communicate something far more serious. If they're delisting forum posts because of a decision to not update their app in the Mac App Store yet, how can I be sure that they won't delist forum posts when they have a data breach? How can I be sure that they're not obfuscating other things that are more important than forum posts to try and sweep bigger issues under the rug? It's like the old adage goes - "If you're willing to lie about something that doesn't matter, what are you willing to do about something that does?" These moves are forcing me to, at the very least, start looking at a new password manager. 1Password is still the best, in my opinion, in terms of features and usability but that won't always be the case and transparency and respect for your users are far more important to me than niche features. If I can't trust your company over something small, there's no way I'm going to continue trusting them with some of the most important info in my life. I currently use both LastPass (not a fan) and 1Password. I'll be re-evaluating KeePass and Bitwarden because of this.

snoopy_telex 4y ago
I went through the process evaluating Bitwarden recently. It's a shame but it's many years behind 1Password and their roadmap doesn't really appear... hopeful towards catching up. I'm waiting for someone to actually build a better 1Password, learning from the mistakes, rather then migrating to something else right now.
- mdaniel 4y ago
  I feel the same way, and I'm firmly in the camp of "roll up my sleeves" if there is work to be done, but I have heartburn about doing that for Bitwarden for a few reasons: * their problem doesn't seem to be "we don't have developer bandwidth to add this nice feature," but rather (from my perspective) they're so lacking in discipline and execution. In other words, the PR to fix any such bugs would be so massive as it might as well be a fork * and that's just on the bugfix side -- anyone who thinks manually created folders are superior to tags ... well, there's no PR to fix that * them being open core(?) makes contributing feel like free labor for a commercial company. I have less heartburn contributing fixes to GitLab because they do have a for-real open source offering (the CE edition) that one can run without drama
  - LelouBil 4y ago
    You can self host bitwarden very easily
- csnweb 4y ago
  I never tried 1password, but I am using Bitwarden right now. What features are important to you that Bitwarden is missing? Just wondering if I should give 1password a try as well.
- Analemma_ 4y ago
  What does 1Password have that Bitwarden is missing? I mentioned elsewhere in the thread that I just switched from 1Password to Bitwarden about a month ago, and apart from the lack of touch ID support on the desktop and the Large Type feature, which are only minor annoyances, Bitwarden has been just fine for me.
  - dkonofalski 4y ago
    There's a lot that's missing. Someone else provided a list but there's a big chunk of things (like SSH keys) that aren't available in Bitwarden. Take this with a grain of salt, though, as my assessment is based on what I looked at last year.
- ValentineC 4y ago
  I'm a 1Password user, and the main thing that stopped me from using Bitwarden was them not having Account Switching. They've managed to implement it in their clients in March this year [1], and I've been moving some of my shared credentials over to a self-hosted Vaultwarden server. What other features do you think are missing from Bitwarden? [1] https://bitwarden.com/blog/account-switching-phased-rollout-for-bitwarden-clients/ https://bitwarden.com/blog/account-switching-phased-rollout-...
- Alupis 4y ago
  What features are missing specifically? As a happy paying (both corporate and personal) Bitwarden user, the only gripe I had was the lack of multiple-profiles on the same device (which was recently added and works great). We came from KeePass though, so we're likely a more "spartan" user of password managers than some.
  - AnonC 4y ago
    Not GP. Custom items (like WiFi passwords, software licenses and many more). It’s been requested and promised with a “we’re working on it” for many years. If there’s one thing Bitwarden is, it’s very slow on developing features that users have asked for. Its focus on enterprise integration makes it seem like the actual product is not actively developed to improve it.
    - bwoodruff 4y ago
      We have templates for both software licenses and wireless routers. :) Custom templates have indeed been on the wish list for a long time. It has proven to be a much more difficult to deliver feature than anticipated. We actually built it, and it is in beta (available to 1Password Business memberships), but we couldn't get buy-in on the implementation. It is something I continue to advocate that we re-evaluate, but I couldn't say if or when it'll happen. -Ben, 1Password
  - jeanloolz 4y ago
    Happy paying customer here as well. I would looooove to have email protection/relay service included to 1password. The synergy is real between those 2 services, and I would love to see it happening. EDIT: was unaware of it of 1password integration with Fastmail. This is actually possible.
- dkonofalski 4y ago
  That was the case in the past when I evaluated it as well but, as I mentioned in my post, trust is more important to me than features and flash. I can usually find workarounds for features and flash. I can't find workarounds for trust in a security-focused company.
n42 4y ago
I don't know. Forums like this, at companies like this, are maintained by one of marketing, sales, success, or some blend of the three (revops? engagement? pick your poison). In the best case, a low level employee made bad choices. More likely than that, a higher level leader in one of those orgs is enforcing a policy decision of theirs. I seriously doubt a C level is involved in any way with this decision. I just don't see how this decision has any bearing on my trust in what they're building.
- dkonofalski 4y ago
  I would agree with you except for two reasons: 1. Senior staff, including Dave (the owner of AgileBits), participate in the forums and are participating in the exact discussions in question while completely ignoring the questions people are asking. It would be hard for them to claim ignorance of what's going on. 2. This also happened during the subscription phase and it happened during the sunsetting phase of standalone vaults so this isn't a first-time incident or atypical of how they respond to stuff from a PR standpoint. It seems like, as a company, their position is to ignore the things that they don't have canned responses for and only answer the things they do have canned responses for and it's obvious that this is what happens to everyone participating. Again... product-wise, 1Password is superior in almost every way to others. As a company, though, it's hard to continue to support them when it would be far more effective to just be honest and say "We've decided not to do x at this time because of y" or "We're going this route because of y and we understand that that's not for everyone but it's much harder for us to do x when only z% of people use the feature."
foobiekr 4y ago
This perfectly summarizes how I feel about Agilebits. I no longer really trust them. For me the big loss of trust started when they stopped encrypting stuff in memory in the 1password4 release. They've gone back to it, but it was a real violation of trust. The subscription/cloud pushing added to that.

snoopy_telex 4y ago

I went through the process evaluating Bitwarden recently. It's a shame but it's many years behind 1Password and their roadmap doesn't really appear... hopeful towards catching up. I'm waiting for someone to actually build a better 1Password, learning from the mistakes, rather then migrating to something else right now.

mdaniel 4y ago
I feel the same way, and I'm firmly in the camp of "roll up my sleeves" if there is work to be done, but I have heartburn about doing that for Bitwarden for a few reasons: * their problem doesn't seem to be "we don't have developer bandwidth to add this nice feature," but rather (from my perspective) they're so lacking in discipline and execution. In other words, the PR to fix any such bugs would be so massive as it might as well be a fork * and that's just on the bugfix side -- anyone who thinks manually created folders are superior to tags ... well, there's no PR to fix that * them being open core(?) makes contributing feel like free labor for a commercial company. I have less heartburn contributing fixes to GitLab because they do have a for-real open source offering (the CE edition) that one can run without drama
- LelouBil 4y ago
  You can self host bitwarden very easily
csnweb 4y ago
I never tried 1password, but I am using Bitwarden right now. What features are important to you that Bitwarden is missing? Just wondering if I should give 1password a try as well.
Analemma_ 4y ago
What does 1Password have that Bitwarden is missing? I mentioned elsewhere in the thread that I just switched from 1Password to Bitwarden about a month ago, and apart from the lack of touch ID support on the desktop and the Large Type feature, which are only minor annoyances, Bitwarden has been just fine for me.
- dkonofalski 4y ago
  There's a lot that's missing. Someone else provided a list but there's a big chunk of things (like SSH keys) that aren't available in Bitwarden. Take this with a grain of salt, though, as my assessment is based on what I looked at last year.
ValentineC 4y ago
I'm a 1Password user, and the main thing that stopped me from using Bitwarden was them not having Account Switching. They've managed to implement it in their clients in March this year [1], and I've been moving some of my shared credentials over to a self-hosted Vaultwarden server. What other features do you think are missing from Bitwarden? [1] https://bitwarden.com/blog/account-switching-phased-rollout-for-bitwarden-clients/ https://bitwarden.com/blog/account-switching-phased-rollout-...
Alupis 4y ago
What features are missing specifically? As a happy paying (both corporate and personal) Bitwarden user, the only gripe I had was the lack of multiple-profiles on the same device (which was recently added and works great). We came from KeePass though, so we're likely a more "spartan" user of password managers than some.
- AnonC 4y ago
  Not GP. Custom items (like WiFi passwords, software licenses and many more). It’s been requested and promised with a “we’re working on it” for many years. If there’s one thing Bitwarden is, it’s very slow on developing features that users have asked for. Its focus on enterprise integration makes it seem like the actual product is not actively developed to improve it.
  - bwoodruff 4y ago
    We have templates for both software licenses and wireless routers. :) Custom templates have indeed been on the wish list for a long time. It has proven to be a much more difficult to deliver feature than anticipated. We actually built it, and it is in beta (available to 1Password Business memberships), but we couldn't get buy-in on the implementation. It is something I continue to advocate that we re-evaluate, but I couldn't say if or when it'll happen. -Ben, 1Password
- jeanloolz 4y ago
  Happy paying customer here as well. I would looooove to have email protection/relay service included to 1password. The synergy is real between those 2 services, and I would love to see it happening. EDIT: was unaware of it of 1password integration with Fastmail. This is actually possible.
dkonofalski 4y ago
That was the case in the past when I evaluated it as well but, as I mentioned in my post, trust is more important to me than features and flash. I can usually find workarounds for features and flash. I can't find workarounds for trust in a security-focused company.

n42 4y ago

I don't know. Forums like this, at companies like this, are maintained by one of marketing, sales, success, or some blend of the three (revops? engagement? pick your poison). In the best case, a low level employee made bad choices. More likely than that, a higher level leader in one of those orgs is enforcing a policy decision of theirs. I seriously doubt a C level is involved in any way with this decision. I just don't see how this decision has any bearing on my trust in what they're building.

dkonofalski 4y ago
I would agree with you except for two reasons: 1. Senior staff, including Dave (the owner of AgileBits), participate in the forums and are participating in the exact discussions in question while completely ignoring the questions people are asking. It would be hard for them to claim ignorance of what's going on. 2. This also happened during the subscription phase and it happened during the sunsetting phase of standalone vaults so this isn't a first-time incident or atypical of how they respond to stuff from a PR standpoint. It seems like, as a company, their position is to ignore the things that they don't have canned responses for and only answer the things they do have canned responses for and it's obvious that this is what happens to everyone participating. Again... product-wise, 1Password is superior in almost every way to others. As a company, though, it's hard to continue to support them when it would be far more effective to just be honest and say "We've decided not to do x at this time because of y" or "We're going this route because of y and we understand that that's not for everyone but it's much harder for us to do x when only z% of people use the feature."

foobiekr 4y ago

This perfectly summarizes how I feel about Agilebits. I no longer really trust them. For me the big loss of trust started when they stopped encrypting stuff in memory in the 1password4 release. They've gone back to it, but it was a real violation of trust. The subscription/cloud pushing added to that.