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What's your approach towards hobbyist programmers under 18, people living in a country that doesn't commonly use the Visa/Mastercard duopoly, or otherwise unabl
by miki123211 4y ago
What's your approach towards hobbyist programmers under 18, people living in a country that doesn't commonly use the Visa/Mastercard duopoly, or otherwise unable to get a credit card for any reason?
I started learning to code as a teenager, with cash being my only way of spending money, so all services that either had a price or required CC verification were completely unavailable for me. Not being able to afford them wasn't the problem, not being able to pay was.
I really enjoyed Heroku for that reason, it was the only service that allowed me to put apps up on the internet that I could actually get access to. It's really sad that something like that is going away.
- tptacek 4y agoIt's a good question, and we don't have a good answer for it yet. You're not wrong to be annoyed by this. It's a consequence of us being a young team with limited resources; if you do nothing to qualify free-tier users, then several people end up with the full-time job of tracking and shutting down abuse. It won't make you feel much better, but this issue is very close to the top of our stack (we'd also convert visitors and window-shoppers better if they could boot something up without a credit card). The incentives are there for us to fix this; it's mostly a matter of time. I'm glad you called it out.
- Curiositry 4y agoIdea: give an option for developers to qualify by proving ownership of an active GitHub/GitLab/Sourcehut profile?
- bpye 4y agoI like the idea but part of me worries that it’d just end up being the Hackoberfest nonsense again? Manual verification perhaps? Seems like a lot of work though…
- spiffytech 4y agoTo some degree that can be faked: https://github.com/artiebits/fake-git-history https://github.com/artiebits/fake-git-history
- fomine3 4y agoAlso if it requires internet points rather than self commit history, we'll see Hacktoberfest storm again.
- miki123211 4y agoHave you considered phone number verification? Both minors and people in non-western countries are a lot more likely to have a phone than a credit card. Not sure how easy it is for fraudsters to get their hands on large quantities of phone numbers though. I wonder, because Github actions are a thing, Github is likely to be facing the same issue, and is likely to have implemented mitigations already. Maybe you could piggyback on that effort and require Github auth?
- tptacek 4y agoWe're taking notes on all this stuff, for what it's worth.
- Yeahsureok 4y agoFree phone numbers to receive sms's are ubiquitous. Its trivial to bypass. Github actions wears the cost as a huge multinational and has anti-abuse mechanisms in place for CI runners but not account signups which again are simple to automate if it means free compute. None of these things are actual solutions, people abuse free tiers to run cryptominers and commit crime, they don't get dissuaded by that. A CC number is a much more serious threshold that solves nearly all of your problems in a day.
- Cameri 4y agoPerhaps you can work with faculty or universities and verify students with email from that institution. You are also getting them while they are young for what it's worth.
- fomine3 4y agoJetBrains manages academic email domains list: https://github.com/JetBrains/swot https://github.com/JetBrains/swot
- miki123211 4y agoThis assumes your school actually provides email addresses, which just isn't the case in certain countries, not outside of higher education.