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> Last month, five people had to be rescued after a pod of orcas attacked and sank their sailboat off the coast of Portugal. As the boat took on water, they dep

> Last month, five people had to be rescued after a pod of orcas attacked and sank their sailboat off the coast of Portugal. As the boat took on water, they deployed a life raft and were picked up by a nearby fishing vessel, writes Raffaella Ciccarelli for 9News. > ... > Conservationists urge the public not to view these incidents as malicious. "They are not attacks, they are interactions, that is, killer whales detect a foreign object that enters their lives and respond to its presence, but not in an aggressive way,” Alfredo López of Iberian Orca, a conservation group, tells Newsweek’s Robyn White. Not that I necessarily blame the orcas here, but this framing is so bizarre and out of touch. "Yes, they destroyed the boat and the people had to be rescued, but it's not aggressive." When organizations use weasel words and spaghetti logic like this, they signal that they're not interested in arguing in good faith, and people start dismissing them out of hand.

thaumasiotes 4y ago
> "Yes, they destroyed the boat and the people had to be rescued, but it's not aggressive." > When organizations use weasel words and spaghetti logic like this, they signal that they're not interested in arguing in good faith There are a few relevant questions in a scenario like this: 1. Was the attack intentional? 2. Was causing harm/destruction a goal of the attack? 3. Orcas are predators. Were they attempting to eat anyone? I would interpret "not in an aggressive way" as drawing a line between questions (1) and (2), and that's certainly an important distinction to draw. It's also possible to draw a line between (2) and (3), which wouldn't match well with the ordinary use of the word "aggressive", but which is still important and is suggested by the context.
- TulliusCicero 4y ago
  Dogs understand attacking property -- especially property obviously being used by a human -- and orcas are considerably smarter than dogs. I believe they've been shown to cooperate with humans in hunting before, and that without the sort of socialization dogs get and without the artificial selection for human sociability dogs have undergone. Sure, they weren't trying to eat anyone, and I don't believe orcas basically ever actually try to kill humans...but the very fact that they don't further underlines how smart they are, so yeah they knew what they were doing.
  - thaumasiotes 4y ago
    > Dogs understand attacking property -- especially property obviously being used by a human -- and orcas are considerably smarter than dogs. The concepts an animal understands are not particularly related to the animal's intelligence. Human property is a major part of the world of dogs, and not at all a part of the world of orcas. > I believe they've been shown to cooperate with humans in hunting before Case in point. Orcas in the wild are pack hunters. This is an easy adjustment for them to make.
- nullhack 4y ago
  Perhaps Orcas nibble at eachothers tails for fun, but multiple cases of breakage seems less-than-playful

thaumasiotes 4y ago

> "Yes, they destroyed the boat and the people had to be rescued, but it's not aggressive." > When organizations use weasel words and spaghetti logic like this, they signal that they're not interested in arguing in good faith There are a few relevant questions in a scenario like this: 1. Was the attack intentional? 2. Was causing harm/destruction a goal of the attack? 3. Orcas are predators. Were they attempting to eat anyone? I would interpret "not in an aggressive way" as drawing a line between questions (1) and (2), and that's certainly an important distinction to draw. It's also possible to draw a line between (2) and (3), which wouldn't match well with the ordinary use of the word "aggressive", but which is still important and is suggested by the context.

TulliusCicero 4y ago
Dogs understand attacking property -- especially property obviously being used by a human -- and orcas are considerably smarter than dogs. I believe they've been shown to cooperate with humans in hunting before, and that without the sort of socialization dogs get and without the artificial selection for human sociability dogs have undergone. Sure, they weren't trying to eat anyone, and I don't believe orcas basically ever actually try to kill humans...but the very fact that they don't further underlines how smart they are, so yeah they knew what they were doing.
- thaumasiotes 4y ago
  > Dogs understand attacking property -- especially property obviously being used by a human -- and orcas are considerably smarter than dogs. The concepts an animal understands are not particularly related to the animal's intelligence. Human property is a major part of the world of dogs, and not at all a part of the world of orcas. > I believe they've been shown to cooperate with humans in hunting before Case in point. Orcas in the wild are pack hunters. This is an easy adjustment for them to make.
nullhack 4y ago
Perhaps Orcas nibble at eachothers tails for fun, but multiple cases of breakage seems less-than-playful