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This doesn't make sense. Let's fix a smaller, bureaucratic problem by allowing the entire industry to be taken over by people that purposefully exploit grey leg

This doesn't make sense. Let's fix a smaller, bureaucratic problem by allowing the entire industry to be taken over by people that purposefully exploit grey legal areas and transfer life quality into dollars and cents? If nurses are lying, thats a poor management system. Punish the bad actors, not the patients

rngname22 4y ago
Nurse is given 50 hours of work for an 8 hour shift. Do you want the nurse to do the essential work and mark the rest as complete even if it wasn't, or do you want the nurse to just ignore what their coworkers are doing, not check off all the boxes, and get fired?
- kickout 4y ago
  I want a system that can audit systematic records falsification leading to severely worse outcomes for human subjects and punish that company/hospice/nursing home/hospital/etc. accordingly. Yea, I've been in places that have those types of systemic issues and in general those places sucked to be at and work at. Would hope those with enough morals recognize the situation and bail. As mentioned, there 'skillset' or willingness to do certain activities is sorely needed in this current labor market and has been needed for some time.
  - TheNewsIsHere 4y ago
    I agree. I recently lost an elderly family member for whom I was the one responsible for care management. He bounced between the nursing home and hospital a few times due to significant water retention. The nursing home was a -good- nursing home and they still couldn’t follow the daily weight check order until I sent them an email calling it out on the hospital discharge paperwork as a medical order, and noting where I had been told in writing that they had only been doing monthly weight checks per the facility’s standing order. It was very frustrating. When I would have a call with his nurse case manager or emails with his social worker, those would sometimes happen at 8 or 9 in the evening, because that’s when they could get to it. And that was one of the better places.
    - kickout 4y ago
      I'm honestly dumbfounded. My grandma and grandpa, whom I was close with and enjoyed spending significant time with, were in a few assisted living type facilities for the last 10 years or so. I felt bad for them (they never liked the food, and loneliness is always a problem) but I felt equally bad for the staff (RNs, CNA, 'med-aides'). My grandparents just simply grew up in a different time and had different expectations so they would always be complaining about something or wanting this or wanting that. I felt terrible for the staff to have to deal with them. The experience has solidified my mindset. I _will not_ live in a 'home' when I'm old, and will not let my mom enter on of those facilities.
      - mindslight 4y ago
        I was going to write a comment laying out an admonishment to keep loved ones in their own homes, and hiring in-home help. But really, it's the luck of the draw depending on their specific medical condition. Like for example if someone has Alzheimer's I don't see how that could ever work DIY unless you spent some extreme amount of money. So really, it's a very strong suggestion - don't let your family members go to a nursing home lightly. Hospitals will often push for it as the only option, and sometimes it may be necessary for a time, but really think about the situation for yourself. Think of nursing homes as existing mainly because euthanasia is illegal and repugnant to many people. I've now had close experience with two family members who have ended up at one for inpatient rehab (one during covid, one afterwards), and they're fucking death traps. And this was a facility that another family member had worked at for some time as the head physical therapist, and they recognized the last name! I don't know if private equity was involved, but as the top-level comment points out the continual screw tightening overwork incentive is there regardless.
  - profile53 4y ago
    I agree. The current system incentivizes lying. If a healthcare worker tells the truth about not being able to complete something, they often open themselves up to civil and criminal liability for negligence and failing to meet standard of care. Meanwhile, lying in paperwork is only an issue if something ever progresses to a lawsuit. It’s pretty much don’t ask, don’t tell. Systematic, unbiased auditing and extreme penalties not just for the individual but for the business employing the person are sorely needed.
- John23832 4y ago
  Those are not the actual options, just the options you have presented. We want nurses to do their actual jobs to administer health based assistance to seniors.
  - profile53 4y ago
    In the abstract that’s true. In reality, these are people who have families to feed and if the choices are to lie on paperwork or to lose your job and likely have your workplace report you for negligence to cover themselves, most people choose to do the essential work and lie about the rest. Retaliation is a huge issue in medicine and attempting to push back against the systems and people in power is often futile.
    - soco 4y ago
      Is there a part of the US healthcare which actually does work properly? Properly as in, providing the care needed by the people?
raincom 4y ago
I am with you on fixing problems. The issue is not nurses, the doctors who run these nursing homes are culprit. They are as bad as PE guys. That's my point.

rngname22 4y ago

Nurse is given 50 hours of work for an 8 hour shift. Do you want the nurse to do the essential work and mark the rest as complete even if it wasn't, or do you want the nurse to just ignore what their coworkers are doing, not check off all the boxes, and get fired?

kickout 4y ago
I want a system that can audit systematic records falsification leading to severely worse outcomes for human subjects and punish that company/hospice/nursing home/hospital/etc. accordingly. Yea, I've been in places that have those types of systemic issues and in general those places sucked to be at and work at. Would hope those with enough morals recognize the situation and bail. As mentioned, there 'skillset' or willingness to do certain activities is sorely needed in this current labor market and has been needed for some time.
- TheNewsIsHere 4y ago
  I agree. I recently lost an elderly family member for whom I was the one responsible for care management. He bounced between the nursing home and hospital a few times due to significant water retention. The nursing home was a -good- nursing home and they still couldn’t follow the daily weight check order until I sent them an email calling it out on the hospital discharge paperwork as a medical order, and noting where I had been told in writing that they had only been doing monthly weight checks per the facility’s standing order. It was very frustrating. When I would have a call with his nurse case manager or emails with his social worker, those would sometimes happen at 8 or 9 in the evening, because that’s when they could get to it. And that was one of the better places.
  - kickout 4y ago
    I'm honestly dumbfounded. My grandma and grandpa, whom I was close with and enjoyed spending significant time with, were in a few assisted living type facilities for the last 10 years or so. I felt bad for them (they never liked the food, and loneliness is always a problem) but I felt equally bad for the staff (RNs, CNA, 'med-aides'). My grandparents just simply grew up in a different time and had different expectations so they would always be complaining about something or wanting this or wanting that. I felt terrible for the staff to have to deal with them. The experience has solidified my mindset. I _will not_ live in a 'home' when I'm old, and will not let my mom enter on of those facilities.
    - mindslight 4y ago
      I was going to write a comment laying out an admonishment to keep loved ones in their own homes, and hiring in-home help. But really, it's the luck of the draw depending on their specific medical condition. Like for example if someone has Alzheimer's I don't see how that could ever work DIY unless you spent some extreme amount of money. So really, it's a very strong suggestion - don't let your family members go to a nursing home lightly. Hospitals will often push for it as the only option, and sometimes it may be necessary for a time, but really think about the situation for yourself. Think of nursing homes as existing mainly because euthanasia is illegal and repugnant to many people. I've now had close experience with two family members who have ended up at one for inpatient rehab (one during covid, one afterwards), and they're fucking death traps. And this was a facility that another family member had worked at for some time as the head physical therapist, and they recognized the last name! I don't know if private equity was involved, but as the top-level comment points out the continual screw tightening overwork incentive is there regardless.
- profile53 4y ago
  I agree. The current system incentivizes lying. If a healthcare worker tells the truth about not being able to complete something, they often open themselves up to civil and criminal liability for negligence and failing to meet standard of care. Meanwhile, lying in paperwork is only an issue if something ever progresses to a lawsuit. It’s pretty much don’t ask, don’t tell. Systematic, unbiased auditing and extreme penalties not just for the individual but for the business employing the person are sorely needed.
John23832 4y ago
Those are not the actual options, just the options you have presented. We want nurses to do their actual jobs to administer health based assistance to seniors.
- profile53 4y ago
  In the abstract that’s true. In reality, these are people who have families to feed and if the choices are to lie on paperwork or to lose your job and likely have your workplace report you for negligence to cover themselves, most people choose to do the essential work and lie about the rest. Retaliation is a huge issue in medicine and attempting to push back against the systems and people in power is often futile.
  - soco 4y ago
    Is there a part of the US healthcare which actually does work properly? Properly as in, providing the care needed by the people?

raincom 4y ago

I am with you on fixing problems. The issue is not nurses, the doctors who run these nursing homes are culprit. They are as bad as PE guys. That's my point.