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Would American high density look like charming antique cities, or would it look like China's modern made high density? Shanghai was cool to visit but I definite

Would American high density look like charming antique cities, or would it look like China's modern made high density? Shanghai was cool to visit but I definitely wouldn't want to live there. Or would it look like something else? Changing zoning is not going to suddenly create charming 300-1000 year old walking cities highly curated and subsidized by tourist dollars to make tourist destinations but that sure gets pushed on every one of these HN stories. American's go on cruises (a super high density vacation) that are very communal. Do you want to recreate the 'cruise' experience in every American city? American's go to Disneyland for vacation, does that mean American's love waiting in long lines and we should design cities around long lines and overpriced fast food?

dqv 4y ago
>Changing zoning is not going to suddenly create charming 300-1000 year old walking cities No, nothing is sudden. It's always transitional; everything is a gradient. You have a gradient that starts at least dense all the way up to most dense. The problem is polarized American thought that immediately imagines mixed zoning to be someone building a mega skyscraper next to a single family home. In reality, someone will build a duplex. Further down someone might build a multilevel quadplex. Further down someone might build townhomes, then further down residential on top with business on bottom. This takes decades on time scale, but this is what people are advocating for. >Do you want to recreate the 'cruise' experience in every American city? Sure, in some places at the end of the gradient where things are most dense (and land is most expensive) it would make sense. There are people who absolutely want this experience for every day life. >American's go to Disneyland for vacation, does that mean American's love waiting in long lines and we should design cities around long lines and overpriced fast food? In my suburb, people love to wait in long drive-thru lines for overpriced fast food, so based on my experience, yes. But to answer your questions, should we design cities around one specific way of building and make it homogenous? No. There is a whole variety of different structures to be built before the cruise ship: https://missingmiddlehousing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/MMH_Diagram_Landing_Page-2.jpg https://missingmiddlehousing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/...
dougmwne 4y ago
Plenty of Europe is brand new and still high density and walkable. It’s not a historical accident, but an actual urban design preference. I live on the very edge of the city. The farms start right after my townhouse. The urban environment stops at my doorstep, but I am fully in the city and have a convenient electric trolley bus line, walkable shops and restaurants and a great bike infrastructure. A new neighborhood of flats is going in, replacing the farms across the street which is about 800 units in 40 densely packed buildings, similar density to the city center. You would have to be in the center of NYC to see that density in the US.
- trilbyglens 4y ago
  So much this. I'm american and have been living in Europe for almost 15 years, and it still shocks me how unbelievably poor american cities are, almost universally. The modern trend of "re-densifying" has really only ended up building out load of expensive yuppie bullshit housing that no one will live in past the age of 35, much less raise a family in. I think it's safe to say that city planners in the US just don't really get it.
  - dougmwne 4y ago
    No kidding. Safe walkability in the US is a premium luxury good. If you want to raise a family in a nice walkable neighborhood, basically anywhere in the country, expect to pay exorbitant housing prices. That same neighborhood in the EU would be a dime a dozen. Small Eastern European cities have better urban design than the US capital or anywhere else.
Steltek 4y ago
Only a person living on a farm would have enough straw for that strawman :). Again people view this as a choice of suburbs or Manhattan, with nothing in between. Removing zoning allows for choice, freedom, and possibilities, where there is currently none. What happens after that is going vary too much to summarize in an HN comment.
- ROTMetro 4y ago
  The straw man I was replying to you mean? Zoning allows my to build a house and know there won't be an asphalt plant built down there street(something I had to fight being granted an 'acception'). Zoning gives me the stability to know that THE LARGEST INVESTMENT I will make IN MY LIFE will be suitable for my intended purpose. Without stability you will end up with nothing.

dqv 4y ago

>Changing zoning is not going to suddenly create charming 300-1000 year old walking cities No, nothing is sudden. It's always transitional; everything is a gradient. You have a gradient that starts at least dense all the way up to most dense. The problem is polarized American thought that immediately imagines mixed zoning to be someone building a mega skyscraper next to a single family home. In reality, someone will build a duplex. Further down someone might build a multilevel quadplex. Further down someone might build townhomes, then further down residential on top with business on bottom. This takes decades on time scale, but this is what people are advocating for. >Do you want to recreate the 'cruise' experience in every American city? Sure, in some places at the end of the gradient where things are most dense (and land is most expensive) it would make sense. There are people who absolutely want this experience for every day life. >American's go to Disneyland for vacation, does that mean American's love waiting in long lines and we should design cities around long lines and overpriced fast food? In my suburb, people love to wait in long drive-thru lines for overpriced fast food, so based on my experience, yes. But to answer your questions, should we design cities around one specific way of building and make it homogenous? No. There is a whole variety of different structures to be built before the cruise ship: https://missingmiddlehousing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/MMH_Diagram_Landing_Page-2.jpg https://missingmiddlehousing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/...

dougmwne 4y ago

Plenty of Europe is brand new and still high density and walkable. It’s not a historical accident, but an actual urban design preference. I live on the very edge of the city. The farms start right after my townhouse. The urban environment stops at my doorstep, but I am fully in the city and have a convenient electric trolley bus line, walkable shops and restaurants and a great bike infrastructure. A new neighborhood of flats is going in, replacing the farms across the street which is about 800 units in 40 densely packed buildings, similar density to the city center. You would have to be in the center of NYC to see that density in the US.

trilbyglens 4y ago
So much this. I'm american and have been living in Europe for almost 15 years, and it still shocks me how unbelievably poor american cities are, almost universally. The modern trend of "re-densifying" has really only ended up building out load of expensive yuppie bullshit housing that no one will live in past the age of 35, much less raise a family in. I think it's safe to say that city planners in the US just don't really get it.
- dougmwne 4y ago
  No kidding. Safe walkability in the US is a premium luxury good. If you want to raise a family in a nice walkable neighborhood, basically anywhere in the country, expect to pay exorbitant housing prices. That same neighborhood in the EU would be a dime a dozen. Small Eastern European cities have better urban design than the US capital or anywhere else.

Steltek 4y ago

Only a person living on a farm would have enough straw for that strawman :). Again people view this as a choice of suburbs or Manhattan, with nothing in between. Removing zoning allows for choice, freedom, and possibilities, where there is currently none. What happens after that is going vary too much to summarize in an HN comment.

ROTMetro 4y ago
The straw man I was replying to you mean? Zoning allows my to build a house and know there won't be an asphalt plant built down there street(something I had to fight being granted an 'acception'). Zoning gives me the stability to know that THE LARGEST INVESTMENT I will make IN MY LIFE will be suitable for my intended purpose. Without stability you will end up with nothing.