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Issue is that its "free" as in zero cost for fishing boats to fish all the fish in the ocean. So fishing has over fished the fish in the oceans. Classic tragedy

by acd 4y ago

Issue is that its "free" as in zero cost for fishing boats to fish all the fish in the ocean. So fishing has over fished the fish in the oceans. Classic tragedy of the commons of a resource fish which has no price for the extractor. Orcas has no food so they knock out fishing boats. Evolution? Tragedy of the commons: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

zahma 4y ago
I agree that it’s textbook tragedy of the commons. It might appear that orcas are trying to outcompete with fishing boats, but this sounds like personification or an anthropomorphism of whales. I figured it along the lines of diminished habitat leading to attacks on a perceived invader, which just so happens to be far worse than any natural predator. It might also take additional experimentation/observation to see if some orcas are predisposed to aggressive behavior when perpetually hungry, but this seems to me quite a natural impulse to starvation. In any case, it will lead to evolutionary adaptation … or extinction.
phendrenad2 4y ago
I don't think we're very close to fishing all of the fish out of the ocean.
- rexpop 4y ago
  I don't know. It looks like Atlantic Cod aren't bouncing back[0], and neither are alewife, rainbow smelt, bloater and others in the Georgian Bay[1]. Meanwhile, apparently, Pacific Sardine have collapsed from 1.8M to 0.2M in the last 20 years[3]. These data paint a grim picture. 0. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7e/f7/c3/7ef7c3244b3e4fd1f224dc645bfe3d8f.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7e/f7/c3/7ef7c3244b3e4fd1f224... 1. https://www.stateofthebay.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/prey-fish-populations-shart.png https://www.stateofthebay.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/prey... 3. https://usa.oceana.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/593/sardine_exploitation_rates_2005-2017_3_1.jpg https://usa.oceana.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/593/sardin...
  - euroderf 4y ago
    On track for Soylent Green scenario.
- mellavora 4y ago
  Now I wonder what that view could be based on? even a quick glance at data shows massive reductions in fish stocks, see other post. or basically any research study https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1467-2979.2003.00103.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1467-2979.... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266684781_A_century_of_fish_biomass_decline_in_the_ocean https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266684781_A_century... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272771419307644 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027277141... https://news.mongabay.com/2020/09/hawaiian-reefs-lost-almost-half-their-fish-to-pollution-and-fishing/ https://news.mongabay.com/2020/09/hawaiian-reefs-lost-almost...
- micromacrofoot 4y ago
  doesn't need to be all of them, just the ones the Orcas prefer
- immibis 4y ago
  If you aren't being wilfully ignorant, then you will be unpleasantly surprised when you find out.

by acd 4y ago

zahma 4y ago

I agree that it’s textbook tragedy of the commons. It might appear that orcas are trying to outcompete with fishing boats, but this sounds like personification or an anthropomorphism of whales. I figured it along the lines of diminished habitat leading to attacks on a perceived invader, which just so happens to be far worse than any natural predator. It might also take additional experimentation/observation to see if some orcas are predisposed to aggressive behavior when perpetually hungry, but this seems to me quite a natural impulse to starvation. In any case, it will lead to evolutionary adaptation … or extinction.

phendrenad2 4y ago

I don't think we're very close to fishing all of the fish out of the ocean.

rexpop 4y ago
I don't know. It looks like Atlantic Cod aren't bouncing back[0], and neither are alewife, rainbow smelt, bloater and others in the Georgian Bay[1]. Meanwhile, apparently, Pacific Sardine have collapsed from 1.8M to 0.2M in the last 20 years[3]. These data paint a grim picture. 0. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7e/f7/c3/7ef7c3244b3e4fd1f224dc645bfe3d8f.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7e/f7/c3/7ef7c3244b3e4fd1f224... 1. https://www.stateofthebay.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/prey-fish-populations-shart.png https://www.stateofthebay.ca/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/prey... 3. https://usa.oceana.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/593/sardine_exploitation_rates_2005-2017_3_1.jpg https://usa.oceana.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/593/sardin...
- euroderf 4y ago
  On track for Soylent Green scenario.
mellavora 4y ago
Now I wonder what that view could be based on? even a quick glance at data shows massive reductions in fish stocks, see other post. or basically any research study https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1467-2979.2003.00103.x https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1467-2979.... https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266684781_A_century_of_fish_biomass_decline_in_the_ocean https://www.researchgate.net/publication/266684781_A_century... https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0272771419307644 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S027277141... https://news.mongabay.com/2020/09/hawaiian-reefs-lost-almost-half-their-fish-to-pollution-and-fishing/ https://news.mongabay.com/2020/09/hawaiian-reefs-lost-almost...
micromacrofoot 4y ago
doesn't need to be all of them, just the ones the Orcas prefer
immibis 4y ago
If you aren't being wilfully ignorant, then you will be unpleasantly surprised when you find out.