4 ms·

Socialism or communism are the alternatives? Or do you imagine a different political system? Which do you strive for? And what are the steps from that to the ne

Socialism or communism are the alternatives? Or do you imagine a different political system? Which do you strive for? And what are the steps from that to the new state performing the actions that an archipelago of effective charities are already taking? Genuine set of questions, that is an interesting take!

joshuamorton 4y ago
I'll step back a little and say that EA is somewhat anti-political, in that organizationally it doesn't believe in political action (any, really) as effective. It sometimes suggests donating to lobbying groups, but if EA took climate as seriously as they took AI-risk, you'd likely see a concerted effort to move people to Wyoming and push for a single-issue climate change candidate to support democratic climate initiatives.
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  This isn't really true. OPP has political action as one of its top priorities and is donating millions a year. Bankman-fried just dropped 10 million on a house race in oregon, and I hear that he's only ramping up his political donations. "Move to wyoming" is something you hear about in the EA community often enough.
  - TremendousJudge 4y ago
    A billionaire donating to a political race? I don't find that very noteworthy.
- not-my-account 4y ago
  I mean, as of the last several years, IMO it is wise to be anti-political - it has been pretty disgusting across the board. But I'll take your point that there is certainly leverage to be had in backing an up-and-coming politician who is focused on some of these important issues. I would guess that an effective altruist would be very interested in seeing how their "investment" would turn out - i.e. would the politician actually be effective in reaching the goals that they set out to achieve? If yes, then I think that it would be quite inline with EA to support politicians like these.
  - TremendousJudge 4y ago
    Anti-political just means pro-status-quo. You can afford to be anti-political because the current state of affairs is convenient for you.
    - not-my-account 4y ago
      Maybe I need to be more precise: neither party of the political establishment is remotely palatable to me. I rarely see anyone who is running who seems interested in changing that, and even if they were, most people I know are not going to support anyone truly anti-establishment. The current state of affairs is definitely NOT convenient for me. But I’ve become jaded, and I do not believe that the current gov of the USA, nor attempting to change the current gov of the USA, is a good use of my time. I’m kinda tired of this facade that you must support a party. I just don’t think it does anything productive, and just makes me exhausted. Maybe I am wrong, and lord knows I would be very happy to be wrong. Until then, I will chug along on a small corner of things that I can actually improve.
      - TremendousJudge 4y ago
        I didn't say that you must support a party -- not being from the US myself, I hear pretty awful things about them all the time. But most political causes are not party politics (you'll never hear this from the parties, of course). As an example, I have never read about EA support for worker unionization, which would be a pretty effective way of increasing worker access to food, shelter and healthcare. It's not even a new, unproven idea! Workers in the US were much more unionized in the past, with a measurable QoL impact. However, since this an issue that can't be solved with monetary donations, plus it requires rocking the political boat, EA advocates are functionally blind to it. These are the types of things I think about when being "anti-politics" is mentioned as a feature.
        not-my-account 4y ago
        Ahh gotcha - boy, I wish we had different words for “centralized insane governmental politics” and “politics as in affairs of the city” haha

joshuamorton 4y ago

I'll step back a little and say that EA is somewhat anti-political, in that organizationally it doesn't believe in political action (any, really) as effective. It sometimes suggests donating to lobbying groups, but if EA took climate as seriously as they took AI-risk, you'd likely see a concerted effort to move people to Wyoming and push for a single-issue climate change candidate to support democratic climate initiatives.

colinmhayes 4y ago
This isn't really true. OPP has political action as one of its top priorities and is donating millions a year. Bankman-fried just dropped 10 million on a house race in oregon, and I hear that he's only ramping up his political donations. "Move to wyoming" is something you hear about in the EA community often enough.
- TremendousJudge 4y ago
  A billionaire donating to a political race? I don't find that very noteworthy.
not-my-account 4y ago
I mean, as of the last several years, IMO it is wise to be anti-political - it has been pretty disgusting across the board. But I'll take your point that there is certainly leverage to be had in backing an up-and-coming politician who is focused on some of these important issues. I would guess that an effective altruist would be very interested in seeing how their "investment" would turn out - i.e. would the politician actually be effective in reaching the goals that they set out to achieve? If yes, then I think that it would be quite inline with EA to support politicians like these.
- TremendousJudge 4y ago
  Anti-political just means pro-status-quo. You can afford to be anti-political because the current state of affairs is convenient for you.
  - not-my-account 4y ago
    Maybe I need to be more precise: neither party of the political establishment is remotely palatable to me. I rarely see anyone who is running who seems interested in changing that, and even if they were, most people I know are not going to support anyone truly anti-establishment. The current state of affairs is definitely NOT convenient for me. But I’ve become jaded, and I do not believe that the current gov of the USA, nor attempting to change the current gov of the USA, is a good use of my time. I’m kinda tired of this facade that you must support a party. I just don’t think it does anything productive, and just makes me exhausted. Maybe I am wrong, and lord knows I would be very happy to be wrong. Until then, I will chug along on a small corner of things that I can actually improve.
    - TremendousJudge 4y ago
      I didn't say that you must support a party -- not being from the US myself, I hear pretty awful things about them all the time. But most political causes are not party politics (you'll never hear this from the parties, of course). As an example, I have never read about EA support for worker unionization, which would be a pretty effective way of increasing worker access to food, shelter and healthcare. It's not even a new, unproven idea! Workers in the US were much more unionized in the past, with a measurable QoL impact. However, since this an issue that can't be solved with monetary donations, plus it requires rocking the political boat, EA advocates are functionally blind to it. These are the types of things I think about when being "anti-politics" is mentioned as a feature.
      - not-my-account 4y ago
        Ahh gotcha - boy, I wish we had different words for “centralized insane governmental politics” and “politics as in affairs of the city” haha