4 ms·

Here is my trick to survive as a Western European in a culturally American environment: just entirely ignore any discussions involving races, racism or progress

Here is my trick to survive as a Western European in a culturally American environment: just entirely ignore any discussions involving races, racism or progressivism entirely. You might think the world translates to your language and you could participate. You might have trouble understanding or be shocked by the reasoning and think asking will help you get it. You might even think you should have an opinion as you have the mistaken idea that your culture is close to the American one. You would be wrong. The way these subjects are entwined with the American psyche and identity defies entendement and reasoning. In my experience it’s best to treat it like you would a foreign religion.

PuppyTailWags 4y ago
I always found it useful to consider the fact that America was at one point an aparthied nation. Its origins relied on the attempted extinction of a race of people who already lived here, then it lived for over a century with an entire race of people as literal property, breeding them like dogs or cats and separating their families with no respect to their humanity. A swathe of america fought a civil war to continue this treatment of this race of humans and the attempt as a nation to reconcile this failed within a generation. There are still members of this enslaved race that, when they were born, were deprived the right to vote because of their race. In this historical context, America's relationship with race does not defy reasoning. It's the only reasonable outcome of a nation that began with humans of one skin color being 3/5 of humans of another skin color.
- nostromo 4y ago
  None of this is uniquely American. Europe, the Middle East, East Asia, Australia, Africa, etc. all have unique but similar histories of genocide and enslavement. And it was happening in the Americas long before any Europeans arrived too.
  - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
    On the contrary, enslaving a specific skin-color is relatively recent invention. Although the concept of slavery is old, the way slavery was applied is relatively new. America also held onto the enslavement of a specific skin-color most recently, and like I said, there are still people alive who were legally barred from voting purely because of their identified skin color.
    - xeromal 4y ago
      Is it any more or any less racist to enslave people on skin color vs nationality? The romans enslaved germanic peoples. I feel like this is the same amount of racism as anything else.
      - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
        Roman notions of slavery were very different from American notions of slavery. Rome did not fight a civil war to continue enslaving a specific group of people, nor did Rome largely declare all germanic people everywhere to be natural slaves of Rome, which was the way Americans viewed their slavery.
        skissane 4y ago
        > nor did Rome largely declare all germanic people everywhere to be natural slaves of Rome, which was the way Americans viewed their slavery. Aristotle believed that the majority of human beings were "slaves by nature"–by their in-born constitution fit only for slavery. Many Romans wholeheartedly embraced Aristotle's thesis. No doubt they would have thought the vast majority of Germanic people fit that category.
        PuppyTailWags 4y ago
        I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make by ignoring how race wasn't developed as a tool to propagate and justify enslavement in Rome in order to explain why America, which is a country that did use race to propagate and justify enslavement for over a century and then went to civil war explicitly to keep a specific race enslaved, has constant race conversations. Why are you doing that?
- hedora 4y ago
  Sadly, slavery and indentured servitude are still legal in the US, and, in absolute head count, are currently a much bigger business than they were before the civil war.
nostromo 4y ago
Most Americans do the same actually. Just quietly listen with a soft smile and then change the subject when your coworker goes off on a diatribe they’re sure everyone around them agrees with.
hedora 4y ago
As an American, I happily talk about all those things with my friends. Come to think of it, that might be why I get along with Western Europeans so well.

PuppyTailWags 4y ago

I always found it useful to consider the fact that America was at one point an aparthied nation. Its origins relied on the attempted extinction of a race of people who already lived here, then it lived for over a century with an entire race of people as literal property, breeding them like dogs or cats and separating their families with no respect to their humanity. A swathe of america fought a civil war to continue this treatment of this race of humans and the attempt as a nation to reconcile this failed within a generation. There are still members of this enslaved race that, when they were born, were deprived the right to vote because of their race. In this historical context, America's relationship with race does not defy reasoning. It's the only reasonable outcome of a nation that began with humans of one skin color being 3/5 of humans of another skin color.

nostromo 4y ago
None of this is uniquely American. Europe, the Middle East, East Asia, Australia, Africa, etc. all have unique but similar histories of genocide and enslavement. And it was happening in the Americas long before any Europeans arrived too.
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  On the contrary, enslaving a specific skin-color is relatively recent invention. Although the concept of slavery is old, the way slavery was applied is relatively new. America also held onto the enslavement of a specific skin-color most recently, and like I said, there are still people alive who were legally barred from voting purely because of their identified skin color.
  - xeromal 4y ago
    Is it any more or any less racist to enslave people on skin color vs nationality? The romans enslaved germanic peoples. I feel like this is the same amount of racism as anything else.
    - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
      Roman notions of slavery were very different from American notions of slavery. Rome did not fight a civil war to continue enslaving a specific group of people, nor did Rome largely declare all germanic people everywhere to be natural slaves of Rome, which was the way Americans viewed their slavery.
      - skissane 4y ago
        > nor did Rome largely declare all germanic people everywhere to be natural slaves of Rome, which was the way Americans viewed their slavery. Aristotle believed that the majority of human beings were "slaves by nature"–by their in-born constitution fit only for slavery. Many Romans wholeheartedly embraced Aristotle's thesis. No doubt they would have thought the vast majority of Germanic people fit that category.
        PuppyTailWags 4y ago
        I think you're missing the point I'm trying to make by ignoring how race wasn't developed as a tool to propagate and justify enslavement in Rome in order to explain why America, which is a country that did use race to propagate and justify enslavement for over a century and then went to civil war explicitly to keep a specific race enslaved, has constant race conversations. Why are you doing that?
hedora 4y ago
Sadly, slavery and indentured servitude are still legal in the US, and, in absolute head count, are currently a much bigger business than they were before the civil war.

nostromo 4y ago

Most Americans do the same actually. Just quietly listen with a soft smile and then change the subject when your coworker goes off on a diatribe they’re sure everyone around them agrees with.

hedora 4y ago

As an American, I happily talk about all those things with my friends. Come to think of it, that might be why I get along with Western Europeans so well.