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High density is for young people. I've lived in ultra high density for decades and it's starting to really hurt. I sleep poorly due to noise (mostly from neig

High density is for young people. I've lived in ultra high density for decades and it's starting to really hurt. I sleep poorly due to noise (mostly from neighbors) and it's not fun to go for a walk anymore. I'm looking for a rural place to purchase a home because sorry, I just don't want to tolerate people's selfishness anymore. Density should come with more rules, both laws that are enforced as well as cultural rules, and in American cities it seems chaos and lawlessness are embraced as tolerance and compassion. I've lived in a city for a while. I'm through. People are rude, loud and even dangerous: putting aside criminality which is being essentially decriminalized (we've removed bail for all but attempted murder in my city, and prosecutors are progressive and are systematically reducing charges on violent crimes so they are misdemeanors, because they're trying to reduce incarceration), cars and e bikes have become dangerous to pedestrians. You're literally never relaxed walking outside on a sidewalk now. Is that the vision?

ryukafalz 4y ago
There is a middle point between city center and car-dependent sprawl. We’ve just mostly outlawed building any new places in this in-between style, so the only ones remaining are those that have been this way for well over a century. See “streetcar suburbs”: https://youtu.be/MWsGBRdK2N0 https://youtu.be/MWsGBRdK2N0
steve-benjamins 4y ago
What city is this?
- robbyking 4y ago
  Strawman City
  - DawnQFunk3 4y ago
  - ryanklee 4y ago
    I've lived in: - Chicago - Baltimore - St Paul, MN - Minneapolis, MN - Cincinnati, OH They all feel exactly the same with regard to the complaints in the post you are replying to. When I was younger, cities were excellent and I would never have imagined wanting to live outside an urban center. Now I am older and have kids and have massively different priorities than I used to; I wouldn't live in any city in any country anywhere. If it's not a suburb, count me out. I value my space, my yard, and my control over my ambient environment. I value my multiple cars that can get me to where I want to go when I want to get there. It's nice and quiet and people are fewer and more predictable. Yes, there are tradeoffs -- the culture sucks, but I can leave my house and go elsewhere for culture. I don't need it right outside my house. It makes my life harder to manage.
- n8cpdx 4y ago
  I read it and assumed Portland. Courts have been letting people walk for things like race-based hate crime (think assaulting a young girl on her bike for being Japanese American). Another example, police arrest a guy for assault, jail/courts let him out before figuring out who he is. Others say it is a straw man, but it isn’t when you’re living it. Receipts: https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2022/07/07/portland-mayor-calls-release-of-hate-crime-suspect-outrageous/ https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2022/07/07/portland-mayor-... https://www.koin.com/news/crime/ppb-seeks-help-iding-assault-suspect-arrested-at-providence-park-graduation/ https://www.koin.com/news/crime/ppb-seeks-help-iding-assault... Edit: I’m an urbanist and I want nearly everyone to live in a city; but that isn’t a reasonable ask until cities are safe, clean, quiet (as can be; aka rules for noise pollution are enforced), and furnished with usable amenities like parks. It pains me to say it, but the current trend for US cities is not it.
- mancerayder 4y ago
  That's NYC.
mtalantikite 4y ago
Sounds like you should move to a rural place, and that's great! There's plenty of that in the US. And it sounds like you live in a place where biking on the sidewalk is legal, which I agree it shouldn't be (it's not here in NYC). But let's not throw away high density living because old people think the kids are making too much noise. As a New Yorker, I prefer the boisterousness of the city, because it sounds like joy to me. [1] [1] reminds me of this recent article: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/09/let-brooklyn-be-loud/670600/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/09/let-bro...
- vangelis 4y ago
  If not having motorbikes ripping through the streets at 2am is gentrification, so be it.
  - FearlessNebula 4y ago
    Yep. The freedom to mod your exhaust systems and blast your stereos does not trump other folks rights to peaceful sleep. Basically somebodies entertainment does not supersede other people's basic biological needs.
  - mtalantikite 4y ago
    I mean sure, no one is happy about dirt bikes revving at 2am. But that happens so infrequently, why even bring it up? Gentrification sounds like the rich person across the street from me that just moved in yelling at the group of black people laughing and having fun on the street at midnight. It’s Brooklyn, get over it.
- mancerayder 4y ago
  NYC has an insane number of bikes on the sidewalks, especially e bikes, and especially in Manhattan, and especially in the non touristy areas.
  - FearlessNebula 4y ago
    It sucks for pedestrians but I can't blame the bikers when the alternative is getting ran down in streets without bike lanes. But if there's a proper protected bike lane then there's no excuse for being on the sidewalk or going the wrong way.
__derek__ 4y ago
> I'm looking for a rural place to purchase a home because sorry, I just don't want to tolerate people's selfishness anymore. Density should come with more rules, both laws that are enforced as well as cultural rules, and in American cities it seems chaos and lawlessness are embraced as tolerance and compassion. Have you lived in a rural area? If not, you should find a way to try it out before taking the leap. City folks tend to have the idyllic version in their head, without realizing how loud ATVs and shotguns sound at 2 am.
- FFRefresh 4y ago
  I grew up in a rural area, and I experienced zero instances of loud ATVs and shotguns where I lived, at any time of day. This view sounds like a TV trope, which one might lean on if they don't have much in-person experience of living in a rural area themselves. The advice to try it before you buy it is sound though.
  - __derek__ 4y ago
    Why would I make it up? What a bizarre accusation.
    - FFRefresh 4y ago
      There was no accusation of making up anything, as I cannot possibly know your personal experience. What I was doing was pushing back on using comically outlier events as something representative of rural living, that the GP would have to reckon with if they were to live in a rural setting. Nobody I know who has lived in a rural environment has ever experienced what you highlighted. If you did experience that, it sounds like you just had shitty neighbors or you lived next to a recreational area where that is more likely to happen, and I would caution against extrapolating that experience to being the norm among rural residents. The irony is I never have been woken up by ATV's and shotguns in decades growing up in a rural environment, but have certainly been woken up by those things a number of times in urban environments.
      - 4y ago
odiroot 4y ago
> Density should come with more rules, both laws that are enforced as well as cultural rules, Singapore figured it out. Makes it a very liveable yet super-dense city.
thehappypm 4y ago
My major criticism of living in the city is that everything is just really difficult. Sure, my apartment is only a 15 minute walk to the grocery store, and not a 10 minute drive, but it’s really damn hard to carry a big load of groceries for a mile. My apartment is on the third floor so moving any furniture in or any outdoor gear is a huge hassle. I have nowhere to store anything. I don’t have laundry in my unit. I have shitty heat in the winter. The building has mice. Oh, and this is in a nice part of an expensive city!

ryukafalz 4y ago

There is a middle point between city center and car-dependent sprawl. We’ve just mostly outlawed building any new places in this in-between style, so the only ones remaining are those that have been this way for well over a century. See “streetcar suburbs”: https://youtu.be/MWsGBRdK2N0 https://youtu.be/MWsGBRdK2N0

steve-benjamins 4y ago

What city is this?

robbyking 4y ago
Strawman City
- DawnQFunk3 4y ago
- ryanklee 4y ago
  I've lived in: - Chicago - Baltimore - St Paul, MN - Minneapolis, MN - Cincinnati, OH They all feel exactly the same with regard to the complaints in the post you are replying to. When I was younger, cities were excellent and I would never have imagined wanting to live outside an urban center. Now I am older and have kids and have massively different priorities than I used to; I wouldn't live in any city in any country anywhere. If it's not a suburb, count me out. I value my space, my yard, and my control over my ambient environment. I value my multiple cars that can get me to where I want to go when I want to get there. It's nice and quiet and people are fewer and more predictable. Yes, there are tradeoffs -- the culture sucks, but I can leave my house and go elsewhere for culture. I don't need it right outside my house. It makes my life harder to manage.
n8cpdx 4y ago
I read it and assumed Portland. Courts have been letting people walk for things like race-based hate crime (think assaulting a young girl on her bike for being Japanese American). Another example, police arrest a guy for assault, jail/courts let him out before figuring out who he is. Others say it is a straw man, but it isn’t when you’re living it. Receipts: https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2022/07/07/portland-mayor-calls-release-of-hate-crime-suspect-outrageous/ https://www.wweek.com/news/courts/2022/07/07/portland-mayor-... https://www.koin.com/news/crime/ppb-seeks-help-iding-assault-suspect-arrested-at-providence-park-graduation/ https://www.koin.com/news/crime/ppb-seeks-help-iding-assault... Edit: I’m an urbanist and I want nearly everyone to live in a city; but that isn’t a reasonable ask until cities are safe, clean, quiet (as can be; aka rules for noise pollution are enforced), and furnished with usable amenities like parks. It pains me to say it, but the current trend for US cities is not it.
mancerayder 4y ago
That's NYC.

mtalantikite 4y ago

Sounds like you should move to a rural place, and that's great! There's plenty of that in the US. And it sounds like you live in a place where biking on the sidewalk is legal, which I agree it shouldn't be (it's not here in NYC). But let's not throw away high density living because old people think the kids are making too much noise. As a New Yorker, I prefer the boisterousness of the city, because it sounds like joy to me. [1] [1] reminds me of this recent article: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/09/let-brooklyn-be-loud/670600/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/09/let-bro...

vangelis 4y ago
If not having motorbikes ripping through the streets at 2am is gentrification, so be it.
- FearlessNebula 4y ago
  Yep. The freedom to mod your exhaust systems and blast your stereos does not trump other folks rights to peaceful sleep. Basically somebodies entertainment does not supersede other people's basic biological needs.
- mtalantikite 4y ago
  I mean sure, no one is happy about dirt bikes revving at 2am. But that happens so infrequently, why even bring it up? Gentrification sounds like the rich person across the street from me that just moved in yelling at the group of black people laughing and having fun on the street at midnight. It’s Brooklyn, get over it.
mancerayder 4y ago
NYC has an insane number of bikes on the sidewalks, especially e bikes, and especially in Manhattan, and especially in the non touristy areas.
- FearlessNebula 4y ago
  It sucks for pedestrians but I can't blame the bikers when the alternative is getting ran down in streets without bike lanes. But if there's a proper protected bike lane then there's no excuse for being on the sidewalk or going the wrong way.

__derek__ 4y ago

> I'm looking for a rural place to purchase a home because sorry, I just don't want to tolerate people's selfishness anymore. Density should come with more rules, both laws that are enforced as well as cultural rules, and in American cities it seems chaos and lawlessness are embraced as tolerance and compassion. Have you lived in a rural area? If not, you should find a way to try it out before taking the leap. City folks tend to have the idyllic version in their head, without realizing how loud ATVs and shotguns sound at 2 am.

FFRefresh 4y ago
I grew up in a rural area, and I experienced zero instances of loud ATVs and shotguns where I lived, at any time of day. This view sounds like a TV trope, which one might lean on if they don't have much in-person experience of living in a rural area themselves. The advice to try it before you buy it is sound though.
- __derek__ 4y ago
  Why would I make it up? What a bizarre accusation.
  - FFRefresh 4y ago
    There was no accusation of making up anything, as I cannot possibly know your personal experience. What I was doing was pushing back on using comically outlier events as something representative of rural living, that the GP would have to reckon with if they were to live in a rural setting. Nobody I know who has lived in a rural environment has ever experienced what you highlighted. If you did experience that, it sounds like you just had shitty neighbors or you lived next to a recreational area where that is more likely to happen, and I would caution against extrapolating that experience to being the norm among rural residents. The irony is I never have been woken up by ATV's and shotguns in decades growing up in a rural environment, but have certainly been woken up by those things a number of times in urban environments.
    - 4y ago

odiroot 4y ago

> Density should come with more rules, both laws that are enforced as well as cultural rules, Singapore figured it out. Makes it a very liveable yet super-dense city.

thehappypm 4y ago

My major criticism of living in the city is that everything is just really difficult. Sure, my apartment is only a 15 minute walk to the grocery store, and not a 10 minute drive, but it’s really damn hard to carry a big load of groceries for a mile. My apartment is on the third floor so moving any furniture in or any outdoor gear is a huge hassle. I have nowhere to store anything. I don’t have laundry in my unit. I have shitty heat in the winter. The building has mice. Oh, and this is in a nice part of an expensive city!