4 ms·

You won't get a visa to stay in NL beyond the default Schengen tourist visa. If you want permission to live in NL for longer, you'll have to apply for a reside

by z9znz 4y ago

You won't get a visa to stay in NL beyond the default Schengen tourist visa. If you want permission to live in NL for longer, you'll have to apply for a residence permit. If you're American, you can get a DAFT self-employment visa for about 2k EUR total (app fee plus various other professional services to set it up). But then you absolutely will be filing NL taxes and paying NL taxes. They are indeed very high compared to US. You will also still be filing US taxes, although you won't owe the US since you will have already paid more in NL. I do not recommend NL for digital nomad who plan to stay longer than a "brief" visit of a month or two. If you're only staying a month or two, you're not a resident and won't have to bother with NL taxes. Also, winter is dark and sucky, and summer is heaven except for the new brief periods of VERY HOT days. Keep in mind that most places do not have air conditioning.

ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
> But then you absolutely will be filing NL taxes and paying NL taxes. They are indeed very high compared to US. And healthcare costs that round to zero, and neither you nor your children will be shot.
- withinboredom 4y ago
  Ha, I was about to say this! My son mangled his foot goofing off on a playground doing things he shouldn’t have been doing. The hospital visit was €30 after fixing his foot (he’s already back to normal, FYI), plus since he’s under 18, he doesn’t cost anything on my health insurance. Let’s also discuss the fact that if you live near any city, having a car is purely optional, and for less than €10 a month, you can get 40-50% off of public transportation costs through their subscriptions. So sure, you may pay an extra 10k a year in taxes, but no car payment, insurance, or healthcare costs probably makes up that 10k very quickly, if not in cash, then in peace-of-mind.
  - RestlessMind 4y ago
    I have kids and I live very peacefully in Silicon Valley. If you are a decent tech worker and have a job at a decent employer, you will get health insurance with a reasonable out-of-pocket maximum (mine is 6000USD for my entire family). That, combined with insurance premiums (around ~4800 for the whole year) is still only 11000USD per year, which is far more than the salary differential between Europe and the US. In short, you don't have to worry about healthcare expenses as long as you are employed by a decent tech company.
    - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
      >as long as you are employed
    - withinboredom 4y ago
      Maximum out of pocket costs for me is €300~ish, and the premiums for my wife and I (kid is free) is €300 a month with worldwide coverage (we travel a lot). I receive Silicon Valley wages and live in Europe. My income taxes are around 25-28% depending on things. I grew up and lived in the US for most of my life. The healthcare simply isn’t imaginable for most Americans. I don’t have to argue with insurance about whether or not a medication is covered, I don’t have to add an extra two hours to my hospital visit just to work out billing, getting an epi-pen doesn’t bankrupt me, and so much less hassle. I got into a motorcycle accident in the US. After really good insurance, it still cost me nearly 100k, my son cost 20k + a huge argument with insurance about the date of conception so they could get out of paying for it. That would have all been free here without any argument whatsoever. I understand your denial, I was once the same way.
  - z9znz 4y ago
    The tax difference is WAY more than 10k a year. I'm not even a FAANG level income person, and my taxes are almost double in NL. But as the original question was just about paying taxes, I didn't provide pro/con reasons for living in NL. I chose to live in NL, and I love having good public transport. However, 40-50% discount is not a normal thing. Even so, if you can avoid owning a car, it's cheaper to use public transport. But if like me you live in a village, you still need a car. And car ownership is much more expensive in NL than US. Of course fuel is much more expensive too, but most of us drive very fuel efficent cars here. All together, the best reasons for living in NL vs US are safety, availability of public transport, and relatively lower income inequality. You give up a lot of $$ for those benefits, but I think it's worth it. Now, when the moron entitlist farmers protest because they want to be allowed to maximize profit at the cost of regional and global pollution, and the NL government bends over and takes it all, that irks me greatly. So not everything is perfect. You do save money on dining out, though, because most restaurants have bland food with poor service; thus, it's better to eat at home or at a friend's.
    - withinboredom 4y ago
      Haha. Truth on the food! It’s only a little higher than the US for taxes. But I was self-employed in the US, so I didn’t have an employer invisibly paying half my US taxes. If coming from a place of employment to the NL, a doubling of taxes would be normal? For the car, it’s usually far cheaper to just rent a car for a few hours (SIXT ride share) or days vs owning one.
      - z9znz 4y ago
        If you come to NL recruited by a company (as an employee), you'll probably be a "highly skilled migrant" and have the benefit of the 30% ruling - https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/en/individuals/content/coming-to-work-in-the-netherlands-30-percent-facility#bd-licollapsed-0 https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/en/individual... This essentially means that 30% of your income will not be taxed. This makes a huge difference! Unfortunately, it does not apply if you are self-employed. The 30% benefit also only lasts a few years. I believe the duration has been shortened in the last couple of years, and now has a maximum of 5 years. Stay longer, and you'll be paying proper Dutch level taxes. As for the car, there are a few good hourly car sharing services. However, those aren't useful if you live in a village where no such cars are near.
- rocket_surgeron 4y ago
  For most tech workers in the US, there is no EU country where: salary - EU taxes + Social Welfare Benefits > salary - US taxes - US healthcare - US retirement My employer routinely sends me to Frankfurt/Brussels/Paris. There are no local engineers doing what I am doing who have a higher standard of living than I do-- and I'm only middle of the road here in the US. Of course, the reality is completely different for almost every other career field but no amount of free healthcare makes up for the fact that I earn, at a minimum, 2x the amount an aerospace engineer in Paris does. Also, the safety of the US is highly variable. In my area the gravest and most obscene crime that has occurred in the last five years was some teens spray painting "420 every day" on the dumpster behind the elementary school.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
    The aerospace engineers are in Toulouse.
  - HaixuanTao 4y ago
    > salary - EU taxes + Social Welfare Benefits > salary - US taxes - US healthcare - US retirement This is true if nothing really bad happens to you and your family ( car accident, really bad decease, ... ). France will have much better social security for tail risk. This equation is not deterministic. It works on majority of cases, but having the peace of mind of feeling safe, is worth a lot to me. Tail risk also compounds the bigger your family is. I am very grateful that my parent will have lifetime free Healthcare, hassle-free retirement, even though this comes at a 50% income tax + social security.
- z9znz 4y ago
  I chose to stay in NL despite the high taxes because I found it to be a better quality of life compared to the US (or at least the places I had lived in the US). The question wasn't about quality of life, it was about paying taxes. Thus, I only answered for that.

by z9znz 4y ago

ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago

> But then you absolutely will be filing NL taxes and paying NL taxes. They are indeed very high compared to US. And healthcare costs that round to zero, and neither you nor your children will be shot.

withinboredom 4y ago
Ha, I was about to say this! My son mangled his foot goofing off on a playground doing things he shouldn’t have been doing. The hospital visit was €30 after fixing his foot (he’s already back to normal, FYI), plus since he’s under 18, he doesn’t cost anything on my health insurance. Let’s also discuss the fact that if you live near any city, having a car is purely optional, and for less than €10 a month, you can get 40-50% off of public transportation costs through their subscriptions. So sure, you may pay an extra 10k a year in taxes, but no car payment, insurance, or healthcare costs probably makes up that 10k very quickly, if not in cash, then in peace-of-mind.
- RestlessMind 4y ago
  I have kids and I live very peacefully in Silicon Valley. If you are a decent tech worker and have a job at a decent employer, you will get health insurance with a reasonable out-of-pocket maximum (mine is 6000USD for my entire family). That, combined with insurance premiums (around ~4800 for the whole year) is still only 11000USD per year, which is far more than the salary differential between Europe and the US. In short, you don't have to worry about healthcare expenses as long as you are employed by a decent tech company.
  - ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
    >as long as you are employed
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    Maximum out of pocket costs for me is €300~ish, and the premiums for my wife and I (kid is free) is €300 a month with worldwide coverage (we travel a lot). I receive Silicon Valley wages and live in Europe. My income taxes are around 25-28% depending on things. I grew up and lived in the US for most of my life. The healthcare simply isn’t imaginable for most Americans. I don’t have to argue with insurance about whether or not a medication is covered, I don’t have to add an extra two hours to my hospital visit just to work out billing, getting an epi-pen doesn’t bankrupt me, and so much less hassle. I got into a motorcycle accident in the US. After really good insurance, it still cost me nearly 100k, my son cost 20k + a huge argument with insurance about the date of conception so they could get out of paying for it. That would have all been free here without any argument whatsoever. I understand your denial, I was once the same way.
- z9znz 4y ago
  The tax difference is WAY more than 10k a year. I'm not even a FAANG level income person, and my taxes are almost double in NL. But as the original question was just about paying taxes, I didn't provide pro/con reasons for living in NL. I chose to live in NL, and I love having good public transport. However, 40-50% discount is not a normal thing. Even so, if you can avoid owning a car, it's cheaper to use public transport. But if like me you live in a village, you still need a car. And car ownership is much more expensive in NL than US. Of course fuel is much more expensive too, but most of us drive very fuel efficent cars here. All together, the best reasons for living in NL vs US are safety, availability of public transport, and relatively lower income inequality. You give up a lot of $$ for those benefits, but I think it's worth it. Now, when the moron entitlist farmers protest because they want to be allowed to maximize profit at the cost of regional and global pollution, and the NL government bends over and takes it all, that irks me greatly. So not everything is perfect. You do save money on dining out, though, because most restaurants have bland food with poor service; thus, it's better to eat at home or at a friend's.
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    Haha. Truth on the food! It’s only a little higher than the US for taxes. But I was self-employed in the US, so I didn’t have an employer invisibly paying half my US taxes. If coming from a place of employment to the NL, a doubling of taxes would be normal? For the car, it’s usually far cheaper to just rent a car for a few hours (SIXT ride share) or days vs owning one.
    - z9znz 4y ago
      If you come to NL recruited by a company (as an employee), you'll probably be a "highly skilled migrant" and have the benefit of the 30% ruling - https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/en/individuals/content/coming-to-work-in-the-netherlands-30-percent-facility#bd-licollapsed-0 https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/en/individual... This essentially means that 30% of your income will not be taxed. This makes a huge difference! Unfortunately, it does not apply if you are self-employed. The 30% benefit also only lasts a few years. I believe the duration has been shortened in the last couple of years, and now has a maximum of 5 years. Stay longer, and you'll be paying proper Dutch level taxes. As for the car, there are a few good hourly car sharing services. However, those aren't useful if you live in a village where no such cars are near.
rocket_surgeron 4y ago
For most tech workers in the US, there is no EU country where: salary - EU taxes + Social Welfare Benefits > salary - US taxes - US healthcare - US retirement My employer routinely sends me to Frankfurt/Brussels/Paris. There are no local engineers doing what I am doing who have a higher standard of living than I do-- and I'm only middle of the road here in the US. Of course, the reality is completely different for almost every other career field but no amount of free healthcare makes up for the fact that I earn, at a minimum, 2x the amount an aerospace engineer in Paris does. Also, the safety of the US is highly variable. In my area the gravest and most obscene crime that has occurred in the last five years was some teens spray painting "420 every day" on the dumpster behind the elementary school.
- ThePowerOfFuet 4y ago
  The aerospace engineers are in Toulouse.
- HaixuanTao 4y ago
  > salary - EU taxes + Social Welfare Benefits > salary - US taxes - US healthcare - US retirement This is true if nothing really bad happens to you and your family ( car accident, really bad decease, ... ). France will have much better social security for tail risk. This equation is not deterministic. It works on majority of cases, but having the peace of mind of feeling safe, is worth a lot to me. Tail risk also compounds the bigger your family is. I am very grateful that my parent will have lifetime free Healthcare, hassle-free retirement, even though this comes at a 50% income tax + social security.
z9znz 4y ago
I chose to stay in NL despite the high taxes because I found it to be a better quality of life compared to the US (or at least the places I had lived in the US). The question wasn't about quality of life, it was about paying taxes. Thus, I only answered for that.