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Apple Collects the Least Amount of User Data Out of Major Tech Companies: Study

82 points by danaris 4y ago

threeseed 4y ago
The important part isn't the amount of data. It's what the data is used for and who it is made available to.
- DannyBee 4y ago
  Right, this could easily be cynically spun as "Apple has improved its user tracking and ad systems such that they require much less user data to achieve the same level of behavioral tracking". Most people don't like the outcome, not how it occurs. IE it's not just that FB is invasively tracking you, it's that they are using their knowledge of you in creepy ways. If they didn't track you at all themselves, but still somehow got the same exact same kind of data, and still used their knowledge of you in creepy ways, i don't' think most people would feel too much better about that.
lapcat 4y ago
"According to an analysis by StockApps.com" This is actually a lie, and the article appears to be mainly clickbait for StockApps. Notice that the chart says "Source:digitalinformationworld". I found this here: https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2022/05/study-shows-google-collects-most-data.html https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2022/05/study-shows-... But that article is just a rehash of the original source: https://www.security.org/resources/data-tech-companies-have/ https://www.security.org/resources/data-tech-companies-have/ So we have here an extremely roundabout series of links, from macrumors to stockapps to digitalinformationworld to security.org. "Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- mupuff1234 4y ago
  And all the staff of "security.org" have a company called Centerfield listed as their employer in their Linkedin profiles. Centerfield has the following description on its page: > "Super-powered customer acquisition. We deliver outcome-based personalized omni-channel digital marketing solutions." Not quite the authority I would trust regarding user privacy.
  - culi 4y ago
    Ok sure but did you read the actual source? All they did was read the privacy policies of all these companies and make these pretty charts comparing what they can and can't collect on you. Then they added up the points. It's extremely transparent about its methodology. And something you can easily check yourself (i.e. open up the privacy policies yourself and double check that Apple in fact can NOT collect your metadata on your stored photos)
- smugma 4y ago
  Summarizing the source article: Google: F Facebook: C Amazon: B- Apple: A+ Twitter: C- Amazing how the “summary” made Facebook look to be better than Amazon and on par with Apple.
  - a_t48 4y ago
    C is not better than B-?
    - reaperducer 4y ago
      No, it is not.
      - culi 4y ago
        I think that was a_t48's point. smugma was suggesting Facebook (C) was better than Amazon (B-) and a_t48 was pointing out that that was wrong...
        smugma 4y ago
        That's correct (I got the grades right but my summary was wrong).
  - BizarroLand 4y ago
    Sorry for the crudeness of this reply but in this lineup an A+ is the digital equivalent of "just the tip"
user3939382 4y ago
Proxy macOS and notice that it phones home almost every moment you’re using it, including details like which programs you’re executing.
- traceroute66 4y ago
  Sorry but that smells like pure FUD to me. Apple sending details every moment about what programs you're using ? Pull the other one !
  - dep_b 4y ago
    Might have to do with notarization. Notarized apps are checked against an Apple API every time they're launched if I'm correct.
  - hobs 4y ago
    You need to read the news, this was a big deal that was widely reported when it was enabled (for supposedly security purposes.)
    - traceroute66 4y ago
      I don't read Apple bashing news sources which frankly smells like where this FUD originated. I'm not going to name names, but I think we all know there are one or two very well-known IT news sites that hold a grudge against Apple due to stupid reasons. Any time they publish anything about Apple its barely disguised Apple bashing.
      - smoldesu 4y ago
        Whether or not you choose to believe it, this is a documented feature of MacOS and one that even Apple supporters will acknowledge as a serious concern: https://eclecticlight.co/2021/08/12/is-apple-keeping-its-promises-over-online-ocsp-certificate-checks/ https://eclecticlight.co/2021/08/12/is-apple-keeping-its-pro...
  - user3939382 4y ago
lizardactivist 4y ago
Possibly. The type of data they collect and what entities have access to it is what is crucial. Least amount of user data or not, reports like these are alarming: https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf It seems that even with maximum security settings, Apple will always know where I am, who is nearby, what mobile networks I use, and what computer networks I use. Espionage and sabotage aside, that's the kind of information the US government has used to decide whether someone, or an entire location full of random people, should be the target of a drone strike. I don't worry about being killed by a drone strike, but the fact that this data is collected from everyone everywhere is worrying, and in my opinion it means Apple and Google are complicit in killings like these.
- traceroute66 4y ago
  (a) Nobody is forcing you to turn on the "Find My" or "Share My" features (b) If you use a mobile phone network, then frankly its game over. You can't bash Apple for that. If you use a mobile network, then your mobile network can track you, the government can track you, and any man and his dog with an IMSI tracker in a box can track you. Doesn't matter if you use an iPhone or $insert_name_of_whatever_phone_you_think_is_more_secure.
  - lizardactivist 4y ago
    (a) "even with maximum security settings" (b) Yes, it's possible my mobile operator and my government can do that. Which I am ok with. What is not ok is that Apple and the US government can, in particular since I am not in the US nor was I ever given the option to decline this data collection.
    - traceroute66 4y ago
      > US government can, in particular since I am not in the US nor was I ever given the option to decline this data collection. I suspect if you were given access to the NSA's dataset you would likely find they have more than enough data on you already, they don't need Apple for that ! Especially if you live in a FVEY country or a US-friendly country, or your data transits such a country.
traceroute66 4y ago
Its clear Apple take privacy seriously, you only have to look at for example iOS privacy settings, all centralised in one place and granular. Meanwhile, if they could, Facebook would embed a chip in you to collect every piece of biometric data about you, as well as recording and videoing the environment around you 24x7x365. Google, well, we all know, Google will do whatever it takes to enable them to sell more ads on their platform. Nobody who takes their privacy seriously should have a Google account. Apple's competitors have set the bar in the gutter, frankly.
- DannyBee 4y ago
  It's clear they want you to think they take privacy seriously. They have also made plenty of steps in the past few years towards the opposite. Given they are pushing very hard now on expanding their ad network, we'll see how it plays out. But overall it seems like complete folly to believe any company really cares. Some may have good leaders who care deeply at a point in time (and I suspect Tim Cook really does), but that will certainly come and go, and you don't want this kind of thing to be dependent on who is in the driver's seat at a given point in time.
  - tigroferoce 4y ago
    The company cares for the profit. In some way it's not Google's fault, but it's our fault, because we allowed the concept of a free internet to even exist. Free as in no money, of course. What I see is that free as in no money sells well, while free as in freedom is not that interesting. We have what we deserve and what we have worked really hard to obtain. And this is sad. One might argue that the users were "tricked" into believing that an ads-based system could be not evil, and that now that technology has become a key part of society it should be regulated (like driving, for instance, is). But then, again, we choose our regulators, and we have the regulators we deserve, so ...
thr0wawayf00 4y ago
A murderer who only murders one person instead of many is still a murderer. Given the recent reporting that Apple is aiming to build its own ad network[0] really puts it's privacy-first branding in perspective. This gave them plausible deniability to knock down Google a peg or two while planning to capture that territory for themselves. [0]: https://9to5mac.com/2022/08/03/apple-ads-expansion/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/08/03/apple-ads-expansion/
- lelandfe 4y ago
  Apple already has an ad network. And a JP Morgan analyst said that Apple’s focus on privacy will limit their ability to grow it: https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/15/apple-ad-business-could-reach-6b-by-2025-with-41b-from-search-ads https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/15/apple-ad-business... I agree that it leaves a bad taste in the mouth for them to have ads, but they do genuinely collect far less data than other platforms.
  - saiya-jin 4y ago
    500 datapoints vs 10,000 is truly 20x less, but the distinction in fact has 0 meaning, both are equally bad.
    - lelandfe 4y ago
      Hm. Agree to disagree, then. It materially is impacting their ability to advertise. That's a good thing.
- simonh 4y ago
  A company collecting information on it's customers isn't murder. By itself it's not even unethical, after all they need to have a lot of data on customers to be able to provide many of their services. What matters is if there are actual unethical uses of that data, such as sharing with third parties that is inimical to the interests of users and to which they do not consent. Still not murder. Specifically on ads, that's actually about Apple advertising apps in the App Store, which is the store people on iOS go to to buy apps. Again, no murders involved so far as I'm aware, not even sharing data with third parties.
onetokeoverthe 4y ago
alberth 4y ago
The word "Collects" in the title is taken out of context because of which companies Apple is being compared against. Apple arguably collect way more user data than anyone else. Heck, they are collecting your biometric. The difference is that this article is comparing Apple (a hardware company) against ad support companies like "Google, Twitter, Amazon, and Facebook" who need to collect as much data in order to target ads/products to you. Apple collects and has access to much more data, they just aren't targeting ads at you YET (expect to see way more ads in their App Store as they push harder into services)
- threeseed 4y ago
  Nobody has claimed nor is there any evidence that Apple plans to use iCloud, HealthKit, FitnessKit etc data for App Store ads. All that has been said is that Apple wants to build a platform to manage the ads across its apps. It's a completely different situation from Facebook and Google.
- macintux 4y ago
  Apple devices collect biometric data. That data remains on your devices. That’s one critical difference between Apple’s data collection and other major tech companies.
  - alberth 4y ago
    Agreed, it's a major difference. But that still doesn't preclude Apple from still being able to target ads based on this data. Instead of Google/Facebook who "push" ads to you based on targeting, the App Store could be "pulling" ads based on on-device data that it doesn't share with Apple.
ubermonkey 4y ago
I mean, this shouldn't be a surprise to anybody. Apple isn't an advertising company (like Google or Facebook) or a general merchant (like Amazon).
- cainxinth 4y ago
  That's changing, though. Advertising is a growing share of Apple's revenue, and they are adding ads to a number of their default iOS apps: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-aapl-set-to-expand-advertising-bringing-ads-to-maps-tv-and-books-apps-l6tdqqmg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-...
  - falcolas 4y ago
    > they are adding ads to a number of their default iOS apps That's not what I read. "I believe that the iPhone maker will eventually expand search ads to Maps. It also will likely add them to digital storefronts like Apple Books and Apple Podcasts." "And TV+ could generate more advertising with multiple tiers" Basically, all they're saying that's known fact is that Apple wants more ad revenue, and then speculating on how they could do it.
  - ubermonkey 4y ago
    I don't see ads in any of the Apple tools I use every day. To suggest, even obliquely, that "well, they sell ads too" here implies an equivalence between the wholesale exploitation of user activity found at Google and Facebook and whatever modest incursions Apple may or may not be doing.
  - proamdev123 4y ago
    Ah, the infamous Bloomberg article with a provocative headline and 99% speculative content that everyone keeps posting as “proof” of Apple’s plans. I have no idea if Apple is planning to expand ads, but neither does the author of this article.
  - danaris 4y ago
    Bloomberg? You mean "The Big Hack" Bloomberg? You mean the outlet that announced bombastically that Apple devices had spy chips in them? And then when basically everyone involved said "no that's bullshit", and Apple devices were disassembled and very experienced people looked exactly where Bloomberg said the chips were, and there were no chips, Bloomberg said nothing? And has still posted no retraction, no updates, and no apologies for this blatant pack of lies?
spaghettiToy 4y ago
It doesn't mention how they know this. Apple is a black box. You can't know if they are collecting specific data. At least with FOSS Google, you can figure out generally what's being sent. Conspiracy: a pro Apple article means macrumors gets early access to something. (Source: Nintendo does this)
newaccount2021 4y ago
bodge5000 4y ago
Judging by some of the comments it may not be the most accurate (also the odd emission of Microsoft, which I'd be genuinely interested in), however I do find it interesting that Twitter seems to be a far worse offender than Facebook.
JasserInicide 4y ago
After the CSAM debacle, I don't know how anyone can consciously pick Apple after they spent so many years saying they value data privacy and all that.
- pieter_mj 4y ago
  With the EU newly voted dsa/dma legislation, a phone local CSAM detection module is 100% certain coming for android. Apple, not so sure. They might even retract themselves from the European market.
- srshearer 4y ago
  At least Apple were just using known hashes. Have you seen what google did? https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/08/googles-scans-private-photos-led-false-accusations-child-abuse https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/08/googles-scans-private-... (Not linking to NYT because paywall)
  - e40 4y ago
    Wow, even after being cleared they couldn’t get their data back.
- zzyzxd 4y ago
  To me, and some tech friends I know who actually understand the implementation, the CSAM debacle is more about control and freedom, and not about privacy. I am not paranoid enough to worry about hash collision, so I am not worried about one day my phone will send my private data to Apple. (I just don't want to pay for a spyware that runs on a device I own, with the intention to work against the owner's interest)
rickdeckard 4y ago
I don't understand how any such comparative study can be conclusive without actually auditing those "major tech companies", it's more self-assuring clickbait than anything else. I'd say one could draw some pretty close conclusions for a company like facebook, as their products needs to interface not only with the user but also other facilities to gain data, and the assumption of interconnecting this data could give you a good foundation. But to then reach a comparable insight on how much data Apple collects, a company where the typical user is using Hardware provided by Apple, an OS by Apple, logged-in using an Apple ID and using a multitude of applications and services which all use SSO connecting to Apple servers....?

82 points by danaris 4y ago

threeseed 4y ago

The important part isn't the amount of data. It's what the data is used for and who it is made available to.

DannyBee 4y ago
Right, this could easily be cynically spun as "Apple has improved its user tracking and ad systems such that they require much less user data to achieve the same level of behavioral tracking". Most people don't like the outcome, not how it occurs. IE it's not just that FB is invasively tracking you, it's that they are using their knowledge of you in creepy ways. If they didn't track you at all themselves, but still somehow got the same exact same kind of data, and still used their knowledge of you in creepy ways, i don't' think most people would feel too much better about that.

lapcat 4y ago

"According to an analysis by StockApps.com" This is actually a lie, and the article appears to be mainly clickbait for StockApps. Notice that the chart says "Source:digitalinformationworld". I found this here: https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2022/05/study-shows-google-collects-most-data.html https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2022/05/study-shows-... But that article is just a rehash of the original source: https://www.security.org/resources/data-tech-companies-have/ https://www.security.org/resources/data-tech-companies-have/ So we have here an extremely roundabout series of links, from macrumors to stockapps to digitalinformationworld to security.org. "Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

mupuff1234 4y ago
And all the staff of "security.org" have a company called Centerfield listed as their employer in their Linkedin profiles. Centerfield has the following description on its page: > "Super-powered customer acquisition. We deliver outcome-based personalized omni-channel digital marketing solutions." Not quite the authority I would trust regarding user privacy.
- culi 4y ago
  Ok sure but did you read the actual source? All they did was read the privacy policies of all these companies and make these pretty charts comparing what they can and can't collect on you. Then they added up the points. It's extremely transparent about its methodology. And something you can easily check yourself (i.e. open up the privacy policies yourself and double check that Apple in fact can NOT collect your metadata on your stored photos)
smugma 4y ago
Summarizing the source article: Google: F Facebook: C Amazon: B- Apple: A+ Twitter: C- Amazing how the “summary” made Facebook look to be better than Amazon and on par with Apple.
- a_t48 4y ago
  C is not better than B-?
  - reaperducer 4y ago
    No, it is not.
    - culi 4y ago
      I think that was a_t48's point. smugma was suggesting Facebook (C) was better than Amazon (B-) and a_t48 was pointing out that that was wrong...
      - smugma 4y ago
        That's correct (I got the grades right but my summary was wrong).
- BizarroLand 4y ago
  Sorry for the crudeness of this reply but in this lineup an A+ is the digital equivalent of "just the tip"

user3939382 4y ago

Proxy macOS and notice that it phones home almost every moment you’re using it, including details like which programs you’re executing.

traceroute66 4y ago
Sorry but that smells like pure FUD to me. Apple sending details every moment about what programs you're using ? Pull the other one !
- dep_b 4y ago
  Might have to do with notarization. Notarized apps are checked against an Apple API every time they're launched if I'm correct.
- hobs 4y ago
  You need to read the news, this was a big deal that was widely reported when it was enabled (for supposedly security purposes.)
  - traceroute66 4y ago
    I don't read Apple bashing news sources which frankly smells like where this FUD originated. I'm not going to name names, but I think we all know there are one or two very well-known IT news sites that hold a grudge against Apple due to stupid reasons. Any time they publish anything about Apple its barely disguised Apple bashing.
    - smoldesu 4y ago
      Whether or not you choose to believe it, this is a documented feature of MacOS and one that even Apple supporters will acknowledge as a serious concern: https://eclecticlight.co/2021/08/12/is-apple-keeping-its-promises-over-online-ocsp-certificate-checks/ https://eclecticlight.co/2021/08/12/is-apple-keeping-its-pro...
- user3939382 4y ago

lizardactivist 4y ago

Possibly. The type of data they collect and what entities have access to it is what is crucial. Least amount of user data or not, reports like these are alarming: https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf https://www.scss.tcd.ie/doug.leith/apple_google.pdf It seems that even with maximum security settings, Apple will always know where I am, who is nearby, what mobile networks I use, and what computer networks I use. Espionage and sabotage aside, that's the kind of information the US government has used to decide whether someone, or an entire location full of random people, should be the target of a drone strike. I don't worry about being killed by a drone strike, but the fact that this data is collected from everyone everywhere is worrying, and in my opinion it means Apple and Google are complicit in killings like these.

traceroute66 4y ago
(a) Nobody is forcing you to turn on the "Find My" or "Share My" features (b) If you use a mobile phone network, then frankly its game over. You can't bash Apple for that. If you use a mobile network, then your mobile network can track you, the government can track you, and any man and his dog with an IMSI tracker in a box can track you. Doesn't matter if you use an iPhone or $insert_name_of_whatever_phone_you_think_is_more_secure.
- lizardactivist 4y ago
  (a) "even with maximum security settings" (b) Yes, it's possible my mobile operator and my government can do that. Which I am ok with. What is not ok is that Apple and the US government can, in particular since I am not in the US nor was I ever given the option to decline this data collection.
  - traceroute66 4y ago
    > US government can, in particular since I am not in the US nor was I ever given the option to decline this data collection. I suspect if you were given access to the NSA's dataset you would likely find they have more than enough data on you already, they don't need Apple for that ! Especially if you live in a FVEY country or a US-friendly country, or your data transits such a country.

traceroute66 4y ago

Its clear Apple take privacy seriously, you only have to look at for example iOS privacy settings, all centralised in one place and granular. Meanwhile, if they could, Facebook would embed a chip in you to collect every piece of biometric data about you, as well as recording and videoing the environment around you 24x7x365. Google, well, we all know, Google will do whatever it takes to enable them to sell more ads on their platform. Nobody who takes their privacy seriously should have a Google account. Apple's competitors have set the bar in the gutter, frankly.

DannyBee 4y ago
It's clear they want you to think they take privacy seriously. They have also made plenty of steps in the past few years towards the opposite. Given they are pushing very hard now on expanding their ad network, we'll see how it plays out. But overall it seems like complete folly to believe any company really cares. Some may have good leaders who care deeply at a point in time (and I suspect Tim Cook really does), but that will certainly come and go, and you don't want this kind of thing to be dependent on who is in the driver's seat at a given point in time.
- tigroferoce 4y ago
  The company cares for the profit. In some way it's not Google's fault, but it's our fault, because we allowed the concept of a free internet to even exist. Free as in no money, of course. What I see is that free as in no money sells well, while free as in freedom is not that interesting. We have what we deserve and what we have worked really hard to obtain. And this is sad. One might argue that the users were "tricked" into believing that an ads-based system could be not evil, and that now that technology has become a key part of society it should be regulated (like driving, for instance, is). But then, again, we choose our regulators, and we have the regulators we deserve, so ...

thr0wawayf00 4y ago

A murderer who only murders one person instead of many is still a murderer. Given the recent reporting that Apple is aiming to build its own ad network[0] really puts it's privacy-first branding in perspective. This gave them plausible deniability to knock down Google a peg or two while planning to capture that territory for themselves. [0]: https://9to5mac.com/2022/08/03/apple-ads-expansion/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/08/03/apple-ads-expansion/

lelandfe 4y ago
Apple already has an ad network. And a JP Morgan analyst said that Apple’s focus on privacy will limit their ability to grow it: https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/15/apple-ad-business-could-reach-6b-by-2025-with-41b-from-search-ads https://appleinsider.com/articles/22/06/15/apple-ad-business... I agree that it leaves a bad taste in the mouth for them to have ads, but they do genuinely collect far less data than other platforms.
- saiya-jin 4y ago
  500 datapoints vs 10,000 is truly 20x less, but the distinction in fact has 0 meaning, both are equally bad.
  - lelandfe 4y ago
    Hm. Agree to disagree, then. It materially is impacting their ability to advertise. That's a good thing.
simonh 4y ago
A company collecting information on it's customers isn't murder. By itself it's not even unethical, after all they need to have a lot of data on customers to be able to provide many of their services. What matters is if there are actual unethical uses of that data, such as sharing with third parties that is inimical to the interests of users and to which they do not consent. Still not murder. Specifically on ads, that's actually about Apple advertising apps in the App Store, which is the store people on iOS go to to buy apps. Again, no murders involved so far as I'm aware, not even sharing data with third parties.

onetokeoverthe 4y ago

alberth 4y ago

The word "Collects" in the title is taken out of context because of which companies Apple is being compared against. Apple arguably collect way more user data than anyone else. Heck, they are collecting your biometric. The difference is that this article is comparing Apple (a hardware company) against ad support companies like "Google, Twitter, Amazon, and Facebook" who need to collect as much data in order to target ads/products to you. Apple collects and has access to much more data, they just aren't targeting ads at you YET (expect to see way more ads in their App Store as they push harder into services)

threeseed 4y ago
Nobody has claimed nor is there any evidence that Apple plans to use iCloud, HealthKit, FitnessKit etc data for App Store ads. All that has been said is that Apple wants to build a platform to manage the ads across its apps. It's a completely different situation from Facebook and Google.
macintux 4y ago
Apple devices collect biometric data. That data remains on your devices. That’s one critical difference between Apple’s data collection and other major tech companies.
- alberth 4y ago
  Agreed, it's a major difference. But that still doesn't preclude Apple from still being able to target ads based on this data. Instead of Google/Facebook who "push" ads to you based on targeting, the App Store could be "pulling" ads based on on-device data that it doesn't share with Apple.

ubermonkey 4y ago

I mean, this shouldn't be a surprise to anybody. Apple isn't an advertising company (like Google or Facebook) or a general merchant (like Amazon).

cainxinth 4y ago
That's changing, though. Advertising is a growing share of Apple's revenue, and they are adding ads to a number of their default iOS apps: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-aapl-set-to-expand-advertising-bringing-ads-to-maps-tv-and-books-apps-l6tdqqmg https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2022-08-14/apple-...
- falcolas 4y ago
  > they are adding ads to a number of their default iOS apps That's not what I read. "I believe that the iPhone maker will eventually expand search ads to Maps. It also will likely add them to digital storefronts like Apple Books and Apple Podcasts." "And TV+ could generate more advertising with multiple tiers" Basically, all they're saying that's known fact is that Apple wants more ad revenue, and then speculating on how they could do it.
- ubermonkey 4y ago
  I don't see ads in any of the Apple tools I use every day. To suggest, even obliquely, that "well, they sell ads too" here implies an equivalence between the wholesale exploitation of user activity found at Google and Facebook and whatever modest incursions Apple may or may not be doing.
- proamdev123 4y ago
  Ah, the infamous Bloomberg article with a provocative headline and 99% speculative content that everyone keeps posting as “proof” of Apple’s plans. I have no idea if Apple is planning to expand ads, but neither does the author of this article.
- danaris 4y ago
  Bloomberg? You mean "The Big Hack" Bloomberg? You mean the outlet that announced bombastically that Apple devices had spy chips in them? And then when basically everyone involved said "no that's bullshit", and Apple devices were disassembled and very experienced people looked exactly where Bloomberg said the chips were, and there were no chips, Bloomberg said nothing? And has still posted no retraction, no updates, and no apologies for this blatant pack of lies?

spaghettiToy 4y ago

It doesn't mention how they know this. Apple is a black box. You can't know if they are collecting specific data. At least with FOSS Google, you can figure out generally what's being sent. Conspiracy: a pro Apple article means macrumors gets early access to something. (Source: Nintendo does this)

newaccount2021 4y ago

bodge5000 4y ago

Judging by some of the comments it may not be the most accurate (also the odd emission of Microsoft, which I'd be genuinely interested in), however I do find it interesting that Twitter seems to be a far worse offender than Facebook.

JasserInicide 4y ago

After the CSAM debacle, I don't know how anyone can consciously pick Apple after they spent so many years saying they value data privacy and all that.

pieter_mj 4y ago
With the EU newly voted dsa/dma legislation, a phone local CSAM detection module is 100% certain coming for android. Apple, not so sure. They might even retract themselves from the European market.
srshearer 4y ago
At least Apple were just using known hashes. Have you seen what google did? https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/08/googles-scans-private-photos-led-false-accusations-child-abuse https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2022/08/googles-scans-private-... (Not linking to NYT because paywall)
- e40 4y ago
  Wow, even after being cleared they couldn’t get their data back.
zzyzxd 4y ago
To me, and some tech friends I know who actually understand the implementation, the CSAM debacle is more about control and freedom, and not about privacy. I am not paranoid enough to worry about hash collision, so I am not worried about one day my phone will send my private data to Apple. (I just don't want to pay for a spyware that runs on a device I own, with the intention to work against the owner's interest)

rickdeckard 4y ago

I don't understand how any such comparative study can be conclusive without actually auditing those "major tech companies", it's more self-assuring clickbait than anything else. I'd say one could draw some pretty close conclusions for a company like facebook, as their products needs to interface not only with the user but also other facilities to gain data, and the assumption of interconnecting this data could give you a good foundation. But to then reach a comparable insight on how much data Apple collects, a company where the typical user is using Hardware provided by Apple, an OS by Apple, logged-in using an Apple ID and using a multitude of applications and services which all use SSO connecting to Apple servers....?