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I guess I have a different personality and life experiences from Ehrmann. It's bovine acceptance ("no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should") really grat

I guess I have a different personality and life experiences from Ehrmann. It's bovine acceptance ("no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should") really grates. There's good advice in there about listening to others, and more, but that level of just-accept-things is leading us as a race, and perhaps as individuals, to disaster. It's not for me anyway.

TheaomBen 4y ago
You could interpret it more generously as be not concerned over that which you do not control.
- Terretta 4y ago
  Agree. > I don’t believe that any supernatural force is at play, certainly not an all caring and loving one, for there is great and needless suffering in our world. Consider an alternate reading, doubling down on unfolding: “And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it will. Therefore be at peace with entropy, whatever you conceive it to be.” One can read the whole and happily strive to bring local order to local chaos as a vocation, both suspecting that may be futile down the infinite yet fulfilled by the local effort, and being at peace with entropy.
telesilla 4y ago
>"no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should" The alternative seems so destructive to oneself, to imagine your efforts could change how the universe is unfolding. Perhaps your household you could exert some control over, maybe your neighbourhood or village, maybe town or even city, or perhaps if you really have luck through your hard work: country or larger population. but the Universe? It has its own plans, bred from the physics of long-travelling dust and atoms, and its own path. We are not much of a concern to it nor can we affect change on it. It helps me to look at the stars when I am stressed that I am not "doing enough or being successful enough". Those stars do not know who I am and never will. Enough that I love and am loved, here in this small sphere in time and space where I exist.
- avg_dev 4y ago
  “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.”
bombcar 4y ago
You may prefer Deteriorata: https://youtu.be/Ey6ugTmCYMk https://youtu.be/Ey6ugTmCYMk
elevaet 4y ago
A great antidote to that line of thought is the saying: > Only dead fish go with the flow
- zasdffaa 4y ago
  I love it, I really do! That is perfect.
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  .. and salmon returning to the sea ... and ...
avg_dev 4y ago
I just read this poem and I agree with you about the lines: > And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. I don’t believe that any supernatural force is at play, certainly not an all caring and loving one, for there is great and needless suffering in our world. That all said, I do find much of the rest of the poem comforting and good advice for myself. Very finally, I urge you to reconsider the phrasing of “bovine acceptance”. Cows are intelligent beings. They have long memories, they have friends, they have feelings. They have personalities. They are capable of learning.
- samizdis 4y ago
  > I urge you to reconsider the phrasing of “bovine acceptance”. Cows are intelligent beings. They have long memories, they have friends, they have feelings. They have personalities. They are capable of learning. I read the term "bovine acceptance" without considering it to denigrate cows, their personalities, feelings etc, but rather with the focus on "acceptance", their perceived resignation to fate or order/hierarchy. My thinking was informed by a bit of Chocky [1], by John Wyndham, in which the key character, a boy called Matthew Gore - who has been communicating telepathically with an alien lifeform (Chocky) and trying to answer questions put to him about Earth - asks his father, "Why does a cow stop?" What the boy means is that he sees cows mass at the field gate at the right time of day, awaiting the farmer who opens the gate, whereupon the cows turn the right way into the lane, enter the farmyard properly, enter the milking stalls without instruction etc - and then the whole process in reverse. But never do they undertake the oft-watched and easy action of raising the simple gate lever to open it for themselves. The father, narrator in the book, offers the idea of "limited intelligence" by way of explanation - but "bovine acceptance" of the world's order might actually be a more useful way to look at it. And, again - unlike the concept of "limited intelligence" - it's no slur on the cows' faculties or feelings. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocky

TheaomBen 4y ago

You could interpret it more generously as be not concerned over that which you do not control.

Terretta 4y ago
Agree. > I don’t believe that any supernatural force is at play, certainly not an all caring and loving one, for there is great and needless suffering in our world. Consider an alternate reading, doubling down on unfolding: “And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it will. Therefore be at peace with entropy, whatever you conceive it to be.” One can read the whole and happily strive to bring local order to local chaos as a vocation, both suspecting that may be futile down the infinite yet fulfilled by the local effort, and being at peace with entropy.

telesilla 4y ago

>"no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should" The alternative seems so destructive to oneself, to imagine your efforts could change how the universe is unfolding. Perhaps your household you could exert some control over, maybe your neighbourhood or village, maybe town or even city, or perhaps if you really have luck through your hard work: country or larger population. but the Universe? It has its own plans, bred from the physics of long-travelling dust and atoms, and its own path. We are not much of a concern to it nor can we affect change on it. It helps me to look at the stars when I am stressed that I am not "doing enough or being successful enough". Those stars do not know who I am and never will. Enough that I love and am loved, here in this small sphere in time and space where I exist.

avg_dev 4y ago
“Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.”

bombcar 4y ago

You may prefer Deteriorata: https://youtu.be/Ey6ugTmCYMk https://youtu.be/Ey6ugTmCYMk

elevaet 4y ago

A great antidote to that line of thought is the saying: > Only dead fish go with the flow

zasdffaa 4y ago
I love it, I really do! That is perfect.
PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
.. and salmon returning to the sea ... and ...

avg_dev 4y ago

I just read this poem and I agree with you about the lines: > And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. I don’t believe that any supernatural force is at play, certainly not an all caring and loving one, for there is great and needless suffering in our world. That all said, I do find much of the rest of the poem comforting and good advice for myself. Very finally, I urge you to reconsider the phrasing of “bovine acceptance”. Cows are intelligent beings. They have long memories, they have friends, they have feelings. They have personalities. They are capable of learning.

samizdis 4y ago
> I urge you to reconsider the phrasing of “bovine acceptance”. Cows are intelligent beings. They have long memories, they have friends, they have feelings. They have personalities. They are capable of learning. I read the term "bovine acceptance" without considering it to denigrate cows, their personalities, feelings etc, but rather with the focus on "acceptance", their perceived resignation to fate or order/hierarchy. My thinking was informed by a bit of Chocky [1], by John Wyndham, in which the key character, a boy called Matthew Gore - who has been communicating telepathically with an alien lifeform (Chocky) and trying to answer questions put to him about Earth - asks his father, "Why does a cow stop?" What the boy means is that he sees cows mass at the field gate at the right time of day, awaiting the farmer who opens the gate, whereupon the cows turn the right way into the lane, enter the farmyard properly, enter the milking stalls without instruction etc - and then the whole process in reverse. But never do they undertake the oft-watched and easy action of raising the simple gate lever to open it for themselves. The father, narrator in the book, offers the idea of "limited intelligence" by way of explanation - but "bovine acceptance" of the world's order might actually be a more useful way to look at it. And, again - unlike the concept of "limited intelligence" - it's no slur on the cows' faculties or feelings. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocky https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chocky