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Cloudflare stood up to a patent troll and won (2019)
- thisismyswamp 4y agoI saw this in Comma AI's blog post - they have also been sued and are planning to fight back: https://blog.comma.ai/ourfirstlawsuit/ https://blog.comma.ai/ourfirstlawsuit/
- BbzzbB 4y agoI get a feeling it inspired this share. They're respectively ranked first and second presently.
- smugma 4y agoWe really admire what cloudflare did in dealing with patent trolls… “Patent troll” should not be an acceptable profession in America, or anywhere for that matter! We will announce more on this soon. Cloudflare’s crowdsourced prior art search was brilliant.
- jgrahamc 4y agoMore recent news about our fights against patent trolls: "Project Jengo Redux: Cloudflare’s Prior Art Search Bounty Returns" (2021) https://blog.cloudflare.com/project-jengo-redux-cloudflares-prior-art-search-bounty-returns/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/project-jengo-redux-cloudflares-... "Former R&D Engineer Wins Round 2 of Project Jengo, and Cloudflare Wins at the Patent Office" (2022) https://blog.cloudflare.com/former-rd-engineer-wins-round-2-of-project-jengo-and-cloudflare-wins-at-the-patent-office/ https://blog.cloudflare.com/former-rd-engineer-wins-round-2-...
- sokoloff 4y ago> funding awards for crowdsourced prior art that could be used to invalidate any of Blackbird’s patents, not just the one asserted against Cloudflare This strategy was viscerally pleasing to read.
- viraptor 4y agoAny news on a fight against targeted harassment and murder attempts?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- kossTKR 4y agoMurder attempts and harassment? Please elaborate.
- viraptor 4y agoOne of cloudflare's customers is a forum known for repeatedly organising swatting, which in practice is a murder attempt (in the US anyway) and other nastiness. Cloudflare seems ok with that, but recently there's more pressure on them. So far only radio silence from the management like Prince and JGrahamC. Check out https://twitter.com/stealthygeek/status/1485731083534667779 https://twitter.com/stealthygeek/status/1485731083534667779 for a longer story for example. It's been an ongoing issue for quite a while but in the last few days there seems to be some effort to make them not ignore it and spread the knowledge.
- thegeomaster 4y agoIf the customer is doing something illegal, it should be the job of law enforcement to judge on that and stop them, not a CDN company.
- geowwy 4y ago
- viraptor 4y agoSure, they just dox specific people and the same people coincidentally get swatted by completely unrelated individuals. Also, I've got a bridge to sell you...
- 4y ago
- tobad357 4y agoCompletely unrelated but as HN works as an unofficial support channel. This page https://www.cloudflare.com/ips/ https://www.cloudflare.com/ips/ seems to be missing a range of IPs which are in the 172.66.x.x range, our site appears under it but can't see it on the page
- jgrahamc 4y agoI see 172.64.0.0/13 on that page; that includes addresses from 172.64.0.0 to 172.71.255.255.
- tobad357 4y agoMy bad. Scanned the prefix without looking at the range. Thanks!
- rsstack 4y ago172.64.0.0/13 is listed there. It isn't 172.64.x.x. It is 172.(64-71).x.x (note that 13 instead of 16).
- sokoloff 4y ago172.66.0.0/16 is inside of 172.64.0.0/13, which is listed.
- netfortius 4y ago?? $ curl -fSsL https://www.cloudflare.com/ips-v4 https://www.cloudflare.com/ips-v4 173.245.48.0/20 103.21.244.0/22 103.22.200.0/22 103.31.4.0/22 141.101.64.0/18 108.162.192.0/18 190.93.240.0/20 188.114.96.0/20 197.234.240.0/22 198.41.128.0/17 162.158.0.0/15 104.16.0.0/13 104.24.0.0/14 172.64.0.0/13 131.0.72.0/22 172.64.0.0/13 == 172.64.0.0 - 172.71.255.255 contains 172.66...
- dang 4y agoWe detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32592487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32592487.
- perlgeek 4y ago[2019] in the title, please
- robertlagrant 4y agoWill the USPO just take the filing money and agree the patent? On what grounds were these patents awarded?
- MintDice 4y ago
- neodypsis 4y agoMy understanding is that most software is not patentable, unless it is tied somehow to hardware or to a machine. I've identified a patent that makes broad claims for which prior art exists in the form of a YouTube video detailing the software and its interaction with a machine. Why is it the case that this form of prior-art is not considered for ex-parte reexamination but it is in the case of the patent owner requesting reexamination? It doesn't make sense. References: [0] https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s2209.html https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s2209.html [1] https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s2801.html https://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mpep/s2801.html
- jaywalk 4y ago> My understanding is that most software is not patentable, unless it is tied somehow to hardware or to a machine. That understanding is incorrect. What is explicitly non-patentable are "abstract ideas" like the patents discussed in this blog post. An example off the top of my head of software that is patentable but not tied to hardware would be a video codec.
- neodypsis 4y agoI think that in the case of the video codec it applies due to the algorithm transforming a signal that represents a physical quantity. So perhaps the requirement is that the software to patent must have a physical effect?
- yellow_lead 4y agoFuture blog idea: How Cloudflare stood up for KiwiFarms
- swarnie 4y agoNZ Farm keeps coming up on Reddit but no one has actually explained what its a reference to. ??
- bpoyner 4y agoI'm assuming that's a joke, but for anybody who hasn't managed to hear of Kiwi Farms. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms
- Semaphor 4y ago> I'm assuming that's a joke I’d say too lazy to google. Because I have never heard of them anywhere before, not exactly widespread outsides of some sites (but I googled them).
- swarnie 4y agoPops straight up if you know what to search for....
- swarnie 4y agoNot a joke, i honestly dont know why people have been referencing NZ farm land.... > an American Internet forum dedicated to the discussion of online figures and communities it deems "lolcows" (people who can be "milked for laughs"). The targets of threads are often subject to doxing and other forms of organized group trolling, harassment, and stalking, including real-life harassment by users. You know, funnily enough, not exactly in my regular browsing habits so im extremely sorry for not knowing.
- pseudo0 4y ago
- OliverJones 4y agoNow it's time to address the root cause of this mess. Make the patent examination system better at vetting claims and looking for prior art. It's too easy to get patents issued. (Said he, who has a few patents to his name.) I don't suppose it's feasible for the Patent Office to crowdsource the examination process: patent applications aren't public. But they could surely hire some people, or a company or two, to use the 'toobz to look for prior art.
- snarf21 4y agoIt is a problem on two fronts: 1) The USPTO office is criminally under funded. You have people making $75K being given mere days to sort out a new patent application. 2) Say you even have a PhD in some field. In three years, you may be completely out of your element with new advances. Now think about people who have been there 20 years I think the solutions are fairly simple for software patents Software patents are only valid for 3 years Software patents aren't transferable, they are only licensable and have to be licensed on the same terms to everyone (this means the patent is always owned by the creators) Software patents have to have a dissertation defense where they have to present to multiple examiners. We need people to push back on things that are "Super common prior art thing but on a PDA"
- jacobmischka 4y agoThis is a bizarre and blatant attempt to yell over detractors with ancient PR. Why are people upvoting this?
- jacobmischka 4y agoOh, I guess because of the recent comma.ai story. Seems a bit less blatant now that I realize that.
- cloudflarefux 4y ago
- yoshuaw 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- simiones 4y agoWhy would CloudFlare do anything like that??? If what kiwifarms is doing is illegal, then law enforcement should stop them. If it's not illegal, then CloudFlare should continue providing service to them, regardless of how much CloudFlare may dislike what it believes they may be doing. It should ideally be illegal for CloudFlare (given how large and important they have become) to refuse business to anyone unless under an explicit court order to do so. Law enforcement should never be up to unaccountable private entities.
- devman0 4y ago[flagged]
- dfgdfgfdg 4y agoThat XKCD gets brought up every time someone mentions free speech and all it does is make a bad argument and refute its own bad argument. First, who's the "asshole?" In ANY situation, people point at each other. But more importantly, free speech is how we democratically resolve conflicts. Rather than fighting about things, we discuss and vote. As a conflict resolution mechanism, democracy which rests on freedom of speech, has been extraordinarily successful. And yet it's always under threat by people who when they are in power feel the temptation to ban the people they don't like from taking part. Even though the people we disagree with are exactly the people with whom we have to resolve conflicts. For thousands of years, when someone got into power, they would use force to keep others from gaining that same power, meaning the only way to get power was by force. That puts the most brutal in power. Welcome to the dark ages. Talking about things is much better, even if it means hearing things you don't like. Sometimes you are right, and sometimes you are wrong.
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- cloudflarefux 4y ago
- dang 4y agoWe detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32592487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32592487.
- AriaSalvatrice 4y agoDo you have any news about your fight against websites dedicated to the targeted harassment of minorities?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- simiones 4y agoHow are so many people on this forum of all places advocating for unaccountable opaque private entities to almost cut off access to the internet for organizations that have not been convicted of any crime?
- LegitShady 4y agoThe old programmers had a left leaning liberterian trend, but today's programmers are a product of institutions that teach and support censorship for their cause etc and will happily support that sort of thing against their political enemies. It shouldn't surprise you. The companies involved aren't doing censorship from the top down, it's censorship being demanded by their employees.
- scohesc 4y agoIt's partially what turned me off of getting into certain industries which heavily involve programming. My own willingness to learn the skills was a large part, don't get me wrong lol - but I'm happier making little scripts and tools/toys for me and a few others to use to make their day to day lives easier. I would never want to work for a larger company like a FAANG outlet, nor any other media-based tech company like game developers. Too many politics have been injected into the identity of a typical programmer, when it should just be about the code.
- tuckerman 4y agoWhile I’ll agree that things have gotten too political for my tastes, don’t you want a say in how your company operates, what products it builds, and how the products you build are used? For me it’s definitely not just about the code.
- 7373737373 4y agoCall these disgusting "lawyers" out by name
- prickelnde-mate 4y ago
- dang 4y agoWe detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32592487 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32592487.
- tomxor 4y agoWhatever you think of cloudflare... It's refreshing to see such principled and dedicated action taken against a clear injustice to a degree well beyond what is self serving.
- polotics 4y agoWon? Come on Cloudflare, you have not won the fight until the opponent is fully defeated: the Trolls' company is still operating, as far as I know the corrupt lawyers still are cashflow positive on their operation. Call us back when these guys are bankrupt and disbarred.
- cheshire137 4y ago
- tedivm 4y agoYeah seeing a three year old article get posted at the same time Cloudflare is getting called out for supporting hate websites is interesting timing.
- convery 4y agoAlways nice to see yet another word lose all meaning on social media..
- tedivm 4y agoKiwifarms members are literally terrorists. They use fear and violence to push an agenda. They have literally killed people. I don't even just mean by pushing people to suicide (which I do believe is violence as well)- the terrorist who killed worshippers at the mosques in New Zealand posted on Kiwi Farms before the attacks. This isn't hyperbole. Cloudflare is working hard to keep a website linked with actual real terrorists online.
- convery 4y ago> the terrorist who killed worshippers at the mosques in New Zealand posted on Kiwi Farms before the attacks. I think you misread the Wikipedia page. Kiwifarms got in the news for refusing to remove the video as it was not breaking any laws. Not for supporting / encouraging him.
- FiniteField 4y ago>the terrorist who killed worshippers at the mosques in New Zealand posted on Kiwi Farms before the attacks. That's not hyperbole, it's simply not true. The shooter posted on 8chan, not Kiwi Farms. You're thinking of a completely different (defunct) website. Even if true, to take just one of very many examples, if I remember correctly the terrorist that mowed down a parade in Waukesha had a long history of posting violent black-supremacist content to facebook. Are all facebook users "literally terrorists"?
- treesknees 4y agoAt a company I worked for we had a strong incentive program to submit patent applications for our work, where each listed inventor would receive a monetary payment of ~$2-3k if the patent was deemed worthy and filed by our lawyers, and an additional bonus if it was granted some years later. The problem is the patent applications would flood in from employees with the hopes that the non-technical lawyers would miss some due diligence like finding prior art. Worst case is you wasted a bit of time on the application, best case is you just made an easy $3k. Now the company was not a patent troll, so I don't recall hearing about any instances of them actually suing anyone over patents. But it still opened my eyes to how ridiculous the software patent process really is. You don't have to create anything, write any code, or even be the brightest engineer with a unique idea. You just need to get that idea past enough people. The entire industry is a scam for money, no matter which end of it you're on.
- ChrisArchitect 4y ago(2019) Plenty of previous discussion when this was news: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21447215 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21447215