12 ms·

If those karate, piano, swimming and football are intense enough to be counted as "work" rather than leisure, then something is wrong. Are hobbies not a thing a

If those karate, piano, swimming and football are intense enough to be counted as "work" rather than leisure, then something is wrong. Are hobbies not a thing anymore?

jacquesm 4y ago
It depends on the intensity and the question of whether or not they are voluntary or mandatory.
searchableguy 4y ago
Many kids are forced to do these activities to pad their application for colleges and sometimes it is for show and prestige.
- Sharlin 4y ago
  Oh. That’s batshit crazy (the college application thing). Why should non-academic achievements make any difference whatsoever when applying to college? Is that a thing anywhere except the US? As for show and prestige, that’s usually what the parents want, so that’s squarely in the "something is wrong" category.
  - nisegami 4y ago
    >Is that a thing anywhere except the US? Very much so. It's a thing even here in my tiny caribbean island for some fields of study.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - collegeburner 4y ago
    colleges have decided they want balanced students who have some of everything (except free time, because lmao they dont need that). so its karate or swimming oe soccer or football or baseball for athleticism, usually 2 during childhood. its piano or violin. its starting extra language study early. boy scouts or national honor society for leadership. speech and debate, model un or working for a campaign to show political consciousness. 100+ nonprofit work (actually documented) or starting your own of you want to stand out. all these can be fun but as a kid you are not doing them to have fun, there is constant pressure to win awards and be the best at these. and the list is picked more from appearance on a college application than enjoyment for a child. this is most american kids now with any ambition of getting into a prestigious school. it will not get you scholarships though. it is also not mentioning that "academic excellence" in high school has moved from straight As to 6-8 AP exams in a single year, i shit you not.
    - searchableguy 4y ago
      > it is also not mentioning that "academic excellence" in high school has moved from straight As to 6-8 AP exams in a single year, i shit you not. Same in India. There is 0.1 to 0.6% chance of getting into any prestigious university depending on the demographic factors of student. This is after extensive filtering in high school. 99% of students spend 6-8 hours in coaching daily for years to get rejected since we follow stack ranking with limited seats. What's sobering is government tried to increase elite universities but people don't perceive them as such even if they have better infrastructure, faculty, and education without the same low acceptance rate.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      > it is also not mentioning that "academic excellence" in high school has moved from straight As to 6-8 AP exams in a single year, i shit you not. That is because even when I attended high school 15 to 20 years ago, letter grades/points were extremely inflated. AP exam scores (and SAT/ACT) are the only objective academic measures. As an example, I am pretty sure a C was the lowest grade possible to get (translated to a 2 on the point scale). Then a B was a 3, and A was 4. For a class, there was a final numerical score (arbitrarily determined), and an A was something like 93 to 100, B was 85 to 92, and so on. But that was for the “regular classes”. If you were in an honors class, you got +5 added to your final number grade for the course. And AP class added +10. So if you ended up with 93, you actually got 103 in the class. And so you had an A, but the grade point average was calculated from 103/100*4 = 4.12. And then this grade point average was used to rank you relative to others in the grade for purposes of determining valedictorian. In any case, as you can see, the whole thing was a joke and anyone who attended class got a C, and anyone who put in half an ounce of effort got an A, and the higher achievers had GPAs higher than 4 on a 4 point scale. Obviously, colleges are not dumb, so they know the whole grade inflation ruse, and it also continues in many classes. After all, at many colleges, their customers are paying them $30k to $70k per year for that grade.
  - Nasrudith 4y ago
    I thought it was a case of everyone apeing the Ivy Leagues when they kept on changing the rules to keep their hardworking minority numbers down to make their New England old money look superior. So the excuse was they are going for "well rounded with extracurriculars" students, back when there were too many Jews for their liking. Then repeat the same thing with Asians once exams and extracurriculars are optimized for. Blind unthinking mimicry drives the educational system. I was in early elementary school when analogies were removed from the SATs. They went from "very important" to disappearing off the face of the earth, only occassionally showing up in two questions at most per standardized test.
konart 4y ago
Those are not hobbies in this case though. I've been attending music school (violin) for 7 years (7-14 y.o.) and only by the time I hit 30 I reasised the problem with the whole system. Teachers (and to some point parents) expect you to invest as much in this music school as you invest (at least expected to) in your regular school. And I never though about it this way. For me this was always a place to escape most of my classmates and have fun if possible. Or just relax. "Why are all those people are shoutin at me? Can't we all just have a good time?"
- piaste 4y ago
  This is one of those problems that goes away when you're an adult. I studied piano as a boy and there was always some friction with my Polish teacher for whom piano was her life's work, and try as she might she couldn't quite get her head around a student who didn't want much more than play Bohemian Rhapsody at parties. Tried to get me to love Chopin as much as she genuinely loved him, but it never caught up and I took university as an excuse to quit. After Covid I picked up the violin, I made it clear to both the school and to my teacher that it's strictly a hobby for me, and we got along wonderfully. On our first meeting she remarked that I never asked the one question that new students always ask, i.e. "how long will it take me to be able to play <insert piece of music>" - I had had that thought, but intentionally withheld it because I didn't want anything like expectations or timetables in my brain-clearing hobby.
  - homeland221 4y ago
    I can tell that you will play your violin with life gusto while your Polish teacher do it with life burden. Music should be like that. So many students I saw for the past decades having achive diploma level in piano or violin or sometime both before they attend University ended up throwing away their musical gift. So sad.
  - konart 4y ago
    >This is one of those problems that goes away when you're an adult. True, I'm still grateful to my teachers and mother who persueded me to finish the school. I bought a violin at 24 and a guitar around 30 and now can practice both at my own pace whenever I have time.

If those karate, piano, swimming and football are intense enough to be counted as "work" rather than leisure, then something is wrong. Are hobbies not a thing anymore?

jacquesm 4y ago

It depends on the intensity and the question of whether or not they are voluntary or mandatory.

searchableguy 4y ago

Many kids are forced to do these activities to pad their application for colleges and sometimes it is for show and prestige.

Sharlin 4y ago
Oh. That’s batshit crazy (the college application thing). Why should non-academic achievements make any difference whatsoever when applying to college? Is that a thing anywhere except the US? As for show and prestige, that’s usually what the parents want, so that’s squarely in the "something is wrong" category.
- nisegami 4y ago
  >Is that a thing anywhere except the US? Very much so. It's a thing even here in my tiny caribbean island for some fields of study.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- collegeburner 4y ago
  colleges have decided they want balanced students who have some of everything (except free time, because lmao they dont need that). so its karate or swimming oe soccer or football or baseball for athleticism, usually 2 during childhood. its piano or violin. its starting extra language study early. boy scouts or national honor society for leadership. speech and debate, model un or working for a campaign to show political consciousness. 100+ nonprofit work (actually documented) or starting your own of you want to stand out. all these can be fun but as a kid you are not doing them to have fun, there is constant pressure to win awards and be the best at these. and the list is picked more from appearance on a college application than enjoyment for a child. this is most american kids now with any ambition of getting into a prestigious school. it will not get you scholarships though. it is also not mentioning that "academic excellence" in high school has moved from straight As to 6-8 AP exams in a single year, i shit you not.
  - searchableguy 4y ago
    > it is also not mentioning that "academic excellence" in high school has moved from straight As to 6-8 AP exams in a single year, i shit you not. Same in India. There is 0.1 to 0.6% chance of getting into any prestigious university depending on the demographic factors of student. This is after extensive filtering in high school. 99% of students spend 6-8 hours in coaching daily for years to get rejected since we follow stack ranking with limited seats. What's sobering is government tried to increase elite universities but people don't perceive them as such even if they have better infrastructure, faculty, and education without the same low acceptance rate.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    > it is also not mentioning that "academic excellence" in high school has moved from straight As to 6-8 AP exams in a single year, i shit you not. That is because even when I attended high school 15 to 20 years ago, letter grades/points were extremely inflated. AP exam scores (and SAT/ACT) are the only objective academic measures. As an example, I am pretty sure a C was the lowest grade possible to get (translated to a 2 on the point scale). Then a B was a 3, and A was 4. For a class, there was a final numerical score (arbitrarily determined), and an A was something like 93 to 100, B was 85 to 92, and so on. But that was for the “regular classes”. If you were in an honors class, you got +5 added to your final number grade for the course. And AP class added +10. So if you ended up with 93, you actually got 103 in the class. And so you had an A, but the grade point average was calculated from 103/100*4 = 4.12. And then this grade point average was used to rank you relative to others in the grade for purposes of determining valedictorian. In any case, as you can see, the whole thing was a joke and anyone who attended class got a C, and anyone who put in half an ounce of effort got an A, and the higher achievers had GPAs higher than 4 on a 4 point scale. Obviously, colleges are not dumb, so they know the whole grade inflation ruse, and it also continues in many classes. After all, at many colleges, their customers are paying them $30k to $70k per year for that grade.
- Nasrudith 4y ago
  I thought it was a case of everyone apeing the Ivy Leagues when they kept on changing the rules to keep their hardworking minority numbers down to make their New England old money look superior. So the excuse was they are going for "well rounded with extracurriculars" students, back when there were too many Jews for their liking. Then repeat the same thing with Asians once exams and extracurriculars are optimized for. Blind unthinking mimicry drives the educational system. I was in early elementary school when analogies were removed from the SATs. They went from "very important" to disappearing off the face of the earth, only occassionally showing up in two questions at most per standardized test.

konart 4y ago

Those are not hobbies in this case though. I've been attending music school (violin) for 7 years (7-14 y.o.) and only by the time I hit 30 I reasised the problem with the whole system. Teachers (and to some point parents) expect you to invest as much in this music school as you invest (at least expected to) in your regular school. And I never though about it this way. For me this was always a place to escape most of my classmates and have fun if possible. Or just relax. "Why are all those people are shoutin at me? Can't we all just have a good time?"

piaste 4y ago
This is one of those problems that goes away when you're an adult. I studied piano as a boy and there was always some friction with my Polish teacher for whom piano was her life's work, and try as she might she couldn't quite get her head around a student who didn't want much more than play Bohemian Rhapsody at parties. Tried to get me to love Chopin as much as she genuinely loved him, but it never caught up and I took university as an excuse to quit. After Covid I picked up the violin, I made it clear to both the school and to my teacher that it's strictly a hobby for me, and we got along wonderfully. On our first meeting she remarked that I never asked the one question that new students always ask, i.e. "how long will it take me to be able to play <insert piece of music>" - I had had that thought, but intentionally withheld it because I didn't want anything like expectations or timetables in my brain-clearing hobby.
- homeland221 4y ago
  I can tell that you will play your violin with life gusto while your Polish teacher do it with life burden. Music should be like that. So many students I saw for the past decades having achive diploma level in piano or violin or sometime both before they attend University ended up throwing away their musical gift. So sad.
- konart 4y ago
  >This is one of those problems that goes away when you're an adult. True, I'm still grateful to my teachers and mother who persueded me to finish the school. I bought a violin at 24 and a guitar around 30 and now can practice both at my own pace whenever I have time.