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Korean politics is blaming feminism for this phenomenon, but it's really a mix of all the issues in the comments, as well as sexual crime injustices (bare minim

by ckylee 4y ago

Korean politics is blaming feminism for this phenomenon, but it's really a mix of all the issues in the comments, as well as sexual crime injustices (bare minimal sentencing for sex crimes) and women afraid of bringing a child into such society. It's just a natural evolutionary reaction.

sacrosancty 4y ago
Has there ever been a society in history that was so bad that "women afraid of bringing a child into such society." was a thing? In the very short term, sure, but forever?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jillesvangurp 4y ago
  Historically, many societies treated women as property whose opinion simply did not matter and having kids was a numbers game that was part of your retirement plan. Have ten kids and maybe a few will survive long enough to take care of you when you are old and needy. In many countries that is a situation that was common until fairly recently and in some countries this is still the status quo. E.g. my parents are from Dutch catholic families and they have countless relatives. My mother had a couple of dozen aunts and uncles. Their generation was a lot less productive. I only have one sibling and neither of us has had any children. We're both middle aged and I doubt it will happen. I know many people my age that have made similar choices. Korea is an example of a conservative society where women are empowered to say no both technically (birth control) and legally (they don't end up being forcibly married by their families anymore). That's pretty much the case around the world with some notable exceptions of very conservative and/or poor countries; typically with a distinct lack of democracy and other freedoms. Economical circumstances make having kids a really expensive choice in Korea. So, people are no longer being forced to marry and have kids, they can practice birth control, and can't afford to have kids. So, they don't unless they really want to and are able to secure the funding. You see the same patterns in other places in the world where housing is expensive and people are literate. They have kids later or not at all. Even countries that are notoriously very egalitarian with extensive child support programs (e.g. Sweden) have rather low birth rates these days.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  Women have only had the ability to reliably avoid pregnancy for a little over 50 years now. You can't look at history for this one.
  - sacrosancty 4y ago
    If you'll allow me to shift the goalposts, then it was men deciding to have kids. Has there ever been a society where men thought the world was too terrible to puts kids into? Assuming men and women have similar interest in the quality of life of their children, it should be the same feeling among women. Of course women have all sorts of other reasons for not having kids, which they'll be using to actually have fewer kids, but imagining that they'll suffer from the bad world doesn't sound like a real reason and more of a political statement to make it look like they're very concerned about the popular worries about the world.
yomkippur 4y ago
yeah this is a bad take that people on r/korea are pushing which consist drum roll please....mostly white men/women who keep this echo chamber narrative going...so that they think that korean women are going to flock to westerners more (?) its bizarre to me as somebody who has many Korean friends who just crack up when I translate that subreddit for them. first feminism in korea is toxic. they are female version of incel culture. very few things translate well to western audiences who unfortunately do not read past headlines on reddit. one example is this left/right equating to US left/right wing. this Korean feminist is also similar, it is not an counterpart to the US feminist movement. there are very few moderate feminists in the mainstream. it is of the radical variety calling for violence against men. for example, they caused controversy for instance streaming sexually assaulting underaged boys and poisoning patrons at a restaurant and uploading it in their community groups. In fact many Japanese feminists point out how toxic the feminist in Korea are, they are not about equality, they are about usurping. Most just live with their parents. now thats out of the way, sex crimes are treated differently in korea due to the complex judicial system that is the result of multiple period of colonialism. its not as rampant as reddit has you believe but the punishment is also too lenient and should be stronger. more women are entering the workforce and they are afraid to lose their careers. the same is true in advanced economies, women in these part of the world have far more choice and power than in third world countries. of course they are not going to give up their comforts. the redpill take you are subscribing to is NOT what Korean Koreans subscribe to. After all there is a record number of cohabiting men and women in Korea, they just simply choose not to have kids or get married anymore. also if you think you have game in korea just because of your skin color, trust me, they know exactly why you are here and they dont care. the "white sexpat" have ruined it for rest of us here. most international marriage in korea is between neighboring countries. this is true for Japan and China as well. People who look like each other but are from different cultures.
- ookblah 4y ago
  just want to add that you do a dis-service for calling out feminism in korea without providing some context. decades of treating women basically as second class citizens or worse with no outlet "created" this environment. there's an equally large incel base in korea and we can argue to death who "started" it first, but history has shown it's usually the men heh. this doesn't excuse or condone the toxicity, but this brand of feminism didn't just rise up out of nowhere. agree w/ everything else u said, and part of it (part of, not all) here is women realized they can just live as a single or have their careers and not worry about the bullshit in-law drama and what have you.

by ckylee 4y ago

sacrosancty 4y ago

Has there ever been a society in history that was so bad that "women afraid of bringing a child into such society." was a thing? In the very short term, sure, but forever?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jillesvangurp 4y ago
Historically, many societies treated women as property whose opinion simply did not matter and having kids was a numbers game that was part of your retirement plan. Have ten kids and maybe a few will survive long enough to take care of you when you are old and needy. In many countries that is a situation that was common until fairly recently and in some countries this is still the status quo. E.g. my parents are from Dutch catholic families and they have countless relatives. My mother had a couple of dozen aunts and uncles. Their generation was a lot less productive. I only have one sibling and neither of us has had any children. We're both middle aged and I doubt it will happen. I know many people my age that have made similar choices. Korea is an example of a conservative society where women are empowered to say no both technically (birth control) and legally (they don't end up being forcibly married by their families anymore). That's pretty much the case around the world with some notable exceptions of very conservative and/or poor countries; typically with a distinct lack of democracy and other freedoms. Economical circumstances make having kids a really expensive choice in Korea. So, people are no longer being forced to marry and have kids, they can practice birth control, and can't afford to have kids. So, they don't unless they really want to and are able to secure the funding. You see the same patterns in other places in the world where housing is expensive and people are literate. They have kids later or not at all. Even countries that are notoriously very egalitarian with extensive child support programs (e.g. Sweden) have rather low birth rates these days.
midoridensha 4y ago
Women have only had the ability to reliably avoid pregnancy for a little over 50 years now. You can't look at history for this one.
- sacrosancty 4y ago
  If you'll allow me to shift the goalposts, then it was men deciding to have kids. Has there ever been a society where men thought the world was too terrible to puts kids into? Assuming men and women have similar interest in the quality of life of their children, it should be the same feeling among women. Of course women have all sorts of other reasons for not having kids, which they'll be using to actually have fewer kids, but imagining that they'll suffer from the bad world doesn't sound like a real reason and more of a political statement to make it look like they're very concerned about the popular worries about the world.

yomkippur 4y ago

yeah this is a bad take that people on r/korea are pushing which consist drum roll please....mostly white men/women who keep this echo chamber narrative going...so that they think that korean women are going to flock to westerners more (?) its bizarre to me as somebody who has many Korean friends who just crack up when I translate that subreddit for them. first feminism in korea is toxic. they are female version of incel culture. very few things translate well to western audiences who unfortunately do not read past headlines on reddit. one example is this left/right equating to US left/right wing. this Korean feminist is also similar, it is not an counterpart to the US feminist movement. there are very few moderate feminists in the mainstream. it is of the radical variety calling for violence against men. for example, they caused controversy for instance streaming sexually assaulting underaged boys and poisoning patrons at a restaurant and uploading it in their community groups. In fact many Japanese feminists point out how toxic the feminist in Korea are, they are not about equality, they are about usurping. Most just live with their parents. now thats out of the way, sex crimes are treated differently in korea due to the complex judicial system that is the result of multiple period of colonialism. its not as rampant as reddit has you believe but the punishment is also too lenient and should be stronger. more women are entering the workforce and they are afraid to lose their careers. the same is true in advanced economies, women in these part of the world have far more choice and power than in third world countries. of course they are not going to give up their comforts. the redpill take you are subscribing to is NOT what Korean Koreans subscribe to. After all there is a record number of cohabiting men and women in Korea, they just simply choose not to have kids or get married anymore. also if you think you have game in korea just because of your skin color, trust me, they know exactly why you are here and they dont care. the "white sexpat" have ruined it for rest of us here. most international marriage in korea is between neighboring countries. this is true for Japan and China as well. People who look like each other but are from different cultures.

ookblah 4y ago
just want to add that you do a dis-service for calling out feminism in korea without providing some context. decades of treating women basically as second class citizens or worse with no outlet "created" this environment. there's an equally large incel base in korea and we can argue to death who "started" it first, but history has shown it's usually the men heh. this doesn't excuse or condone the toxicity, but this brand of feminism didn't just rise up out of nowhere. agree w/ everything else u said, and part of it (part of, not all) here is women realized they can just live as a single or have their careers and not worry about the bullshit in-law drama and what have you.