4 ms·

Or how about just being able to anticipate the power band around a corner? Being able to downshift on a hill without thinking about it. Those are things you don

Or how about just being able to anticipate the power band around a corner? Being able to downshift on a hill without thinking about it. Those are things you don't even realize you do in a manual, that you do. case in point, me flooring it on a left hand turn in my moms prius and having to wait a good 500ms for the thing to start moving at all. I know exactly what my manual does in first gear and when, I don't think about it, it's an extension of myself.

exodust 4y ago
I drove a manual years ago. It was fun then, but now I prefer the paddle-shift of my "semi-auto", which is still going strong without fault for 15 years. I can downshift before the hill to get revs, and prevent the auto-shift as I go up the hill. Or I can downshift to use engine as brake. No clutch to worry about, and my hands never leave wheel. Long-press the paddle to return to auto for the boring sections. Awesome usability! Could never go back to manual, the paddle-shifters are too much fun and too easy!
zaarn 4y ago
I've given up with manual, as a technology, since I've used an EV that didn't have any switching transmission. Just fixed gear ratio. The feeling is better than manual. You always have full power available. There is no RPM regime where an EV won't be able to apply maximum torque. Manual can't beat that feeling. Though I will also say that a modern automatic doesn't need 500 meters. It works almost as well as manual. If you floor the pedal if shifts to apply more torque.
- superhuzza 4y ago
  He meant 500 milliseconds not 500 metres. Not having any pickup over 500 metres would be insane.
  - zaarn 4y ago
    I am sure that doesn't change the argument at all, most electric motors don't need 500ms to apply force.
    - calvinmorrison 4y ago
      Surely they don't. But that's not what it's about. It's about the fact that I can't reliably gauge how this car works or have good feedback in comparison to my manual.
      - zaarn 4y ago
        I would argue you have better feedback and can understand better how it works than manual. There is a fixed ratio gear connecting motor and wheels. Simpler than clutch and transmission by miles. The motor works with electricity and a motor controller, all software. It has reliable performance characteristics.
- sokoloff 4y ago
  > There is no RPM regime where an EV won't be able to apply maximum torque. Sure there is! Electrics have maximum torque at zero RPM. As RPM increases, their torque drops off. Some cars will have a torque limit that provides for constant torque (less than the motor would be capable of), but as RPM continued to increase, eventually the torque falls off. > You always have full power available. This is also incorrect, but less so than the max torque claim, as power is torque times RPM (times a constant), so as RPM rises and torque falls, power is closer to constant than torque is. Here’s an article covering a dyno test of a plaid Model S: https://electrek.co/2017/02/21/tesla-model-s-p100d-ludicrous-torque-dyno/ https://electrek.co/2017/02/21/tesla-model-s-p100d-ludicrous...
  - zaarn 4y ago
    Most EV motors are fairly flat, but as you mention, they use software to further flatten in. Reality is; the torque curve is nearly perfectly flat.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      That’s contrary to electric motor theory and to the dyno test that I linked above. The power curve is much flatter than the torque curve. https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/02/29007-2016-tesla-model-s-dyno.jpg https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/02/29007...
      - zaarn 4y ago
        Not sure what your point there is? EVs are still fixed-gear ratio and provide maximum torque over the entire range. The graph you linked just shows that?
  - Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
    > > You always have full power available. > This is also incorrect, but less so than the max torque claim Eh, I think you're being a bit pedantic here. The point was that in an EV, you always have the maximum torque for a given speed available. Whereas in an ICE, you'll have to downshift, which in some automatic cars can take a second or two. You can suddenly floor the gas and go nowhere, whereas an EV takes off immediately. Even a 600 horsepower hypercar will be a little sluggish if you floor it at 55 mph in the top gear.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
Gordonjcp 4y ago
> Or how about just being able to anticipate the power band around a corner? Being able to downshift on a hill without thinking about it. Those are things you don't even realize you do in a manual, that you do. You can do that in an automatic, too. Reach over to the gear selector, move it from D to a lower gear. I can honestly say I don't give a shit whether I'm driving a manual or an automatic. I don't really think about gear changing in either.

exodust 4y ago

I drove a manual years ago. It was fun then, but now I prefer the paddle-shift of my "semi-auto", which is still going strong without fault for 15 years. I can downshift before the hill to get revs, and prevent the auto-shift as I go up the hill. Or I can downshift to use engine as brake. No clutch to worry about, and my hands never leave wheel. Long-press the paddle to return to auto for the boring sections. Awesome usability! Could never go back to manual, the paddle-shifters are too much fun and too easy!

zaarn 4y ago

I've given up with manual, as a technology, since I've used an EV that didn't have any switching transmission. Just fixed gear ratio. The feeling is better than manual. You always have full power available. There is no RPM regime where an EV won't be able to apply maximum torque. Manual can't beat that feeling. Though I will also say that a modern automatic doesn't need 500 meters. It works almost as well as manual. If you floor the pedal if shifts to apply more torque.

superhuzza 4y ago
He meant 500 milliseconds not 500 metres. Not having any pickup over 500 metres would be insane.
- zaarn 4y ago
  I am sure that doesn't change the argument at all, most electric motors don't need 500ms to apply force.
  - calvinmorrison 4y ago
    Surely they don't. But that's not what it's about. It's about the fact that I can't reliably gauge how this car works or have good feedback in comparison to my manual.
    - zaarn 4y ago
      I would argue you have better feedback and can understand better how it works than manual. There is a fixed ratio gear connecting motor and wheels. Simpler than clutch and transmission by miles. The motor works with electricity and a motor controller, all software. It has reliable performance characteristics.
sokoloff 4y ago
> There is no RPM regime where an EV won't be able to apply maximum torque. Sure there is! Electrics have maximum torque at zero RPM. As RPM increases, their torque drops off. Some cars will have a torque limit that provides for constant torque (less than the motor would be capable of), but as RPM continued to increase, eventually the torque falls off. > You always have full power available. This is also incorrect, but less so than the max torque claim, as power is torque times RPM (times a constant), so as RPM rises and torque falls, power is closer to constant than torque is. Here’s an article covering a dyno test of a plaid Model S: https://electrek.co/2017/02/21/tesla-model-s-p100d-ludicrous-torque-dyno/ https://electrek.co/2017/02/21/tesla-model-s-p100d-ludicrous...
- zaarn 4y ago
  Most EV motors are fairly flat, but as you mention, they use software to further flatten in. Reality is; the torque curve is nearly perfectly flat.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    That’s contrary to electric motor theory and to the dyno test that I linked above. The power curve is much flatter than the torque curve. https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/02/29007-2016-tesla-model-s-dyno.jpg https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2017/02/29007...
    - zaarn 4y ago
      Not sure what your point there is? EVs are still fixed-gear ratio and provide maximum torque over the entire range. The graph you linked just shows that?
- Sohcahtoa82 4y ago
  > > You always have full power available. > This is also incorrect, but less so than the max torque claim Eh, I think you're being a bit pedantic here. The point was that in an EV, you always have the maximum torque for a given speed available. Whereas in an ICE, you'll have to downshift, which in some automatic cars can take a second or two. You can suddenly floor the gas and go nowhere, whereas an EV takes off immediately. Even a 600 horsepower hypercar will be a little sluggish if you floor it at 55 mph in the top gear.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

Gordonjcp 4y ago

> Or how about just being able to anticipate the power band around a corner? Being able to downshift on a hill without thinking about it. Those are things you don't even realize you do in a manual, that you do. You can do that in an automatic, too. Reach over to the gear selector, move it from D to a lower gear. I can honestly say I don't give a shit whether I'm driving a manual or an automatic. I don't really think about gear changing in either.