8 ms·

Here's a better compromise, a semi-automatic: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transm

by melony 4y ago

Here's a better compromise, a semi-automatic: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-automatic_transmission You choose when to change the gears but the computer deals with the clutch, best of both worlds.

ImprovedSilence 4y ago
meh, my wife's car does that, but to me it's not the same. I think if I can put into words what I like about manual transmissions, it's more than just the control to change the gears, it's the actual tactile feeling of removing power from the drivetrain (via clutch), then re-applying it. it's the cliche feeling of "connection" to the car, road, and what's happening. But I understand why the manual is dying. Most people don't want it, today's automatics are much better suited for towing (thus eliminating the manual in trucks and SUVs), and the top of the top of performance cars paddle shift light years faster than anyone could in a proper manual transmission.
- pixelpoet 4y ago
  Even as someone who hates cars and has never in 40 years had a driver's licence, I get this (have learnt how to drive). Automatic instead of manual feels how I imagine pre-chewed ice cream feels.
- calvinmorrison 4y ago
  Or how about just being able to anticipate the power band around a corner? Being able to downshift on a hill without thinking about it. Those are things you don't even realize you do in a manual, that you do. case in point, me flooring it on a left hand turn in my moms prius and having to wait a good 500ms for the thing to start moving at all. I know exactly what my manual does in first gear and when, I don't think about it, it's an extension of myself.
  - exodust 4y ago
    I drove a manual years ago. It was fun then, but now I prefer the paddle-shift of my "semi-auto", which is still going strong without fault for 15 years. I can downshift before the hill to get revs, and prevent the auto-shift as I go up the hill. Or I can downshift to use engine as brake. No clutch to worry about, and my hands never leave wheel. Long-press the paddle to return to auto for the boring sections. Awesome usability! Could never go back to manual, the paddle-shifters are too much fun and too easy!
  - zaarn 4y ago
    I've given up with manual, as a technology, since I've used an EV that didn't have any switching transmission. Just fixed gear ratio. The feeling is better than manual. You always have full power available. There is no RPM regime where an EV won't be able to apply maximum torque. Manual can't beat that feeling. Though I will also say that a modern automatic doesn't need 500 meters. It works almost as well as manual. If you floor the pedal if shifts to apply more torque.
    - superhuzza 4y ago
      He meant 500 milliseconds not 500 metres. Not having any pickup over 500 metres would be insane.
      - zaarn 4y ago
        I am sure that doesn't change the argument at all, most electric motors don't need 500ms to apply force.
        calvinmorrison 4y ago
        Surely they don't. But that's not what it's about. It's about the fact that I can't reliably gauge how this car works or have good feedback in comparison to my manual.
        zaarn 4y ago
        I would argue you have better feedback and can understand better how it works than manual. There is a fixed ratio gear connecting motor and wheels. Simpler than clutch and transmission by miles. The motor works with electricity and a motor controller, all software. It has reliable performance characteristics.
    - sokoloff 4y ago
      > There is no RPM regime where an EV won't be able to apply maximum torque. Sure there is! Electrics have maximum torque at zero RPM. As RPM increases, their torque drops off. Some cars will have a torque limit that provides for constant torque (less than the motor would be capable of), but as RPM continued to increase, eventually the torque falls off. > You always have full power available. This is also incorrect, but less so than the max torque claim, as power is torque times RPM (times a constant), so as RPM rises and torque falls, power is closer to constant than torque is. Here’s an article covering a dyno test of a plaid Model S: https://electrek.co/2017/02/21/tesla-model-s-p100d-ludicrous-torque-dyno/ https://electrek.co/2017/02/21/tesla-model-s-p100d-ludicrous...
  - Gordonjcp 4y ago
    > Or how about just being able to anticipate the power band around a corner? Being able to downshift on a hill without thinking about it. Those are things you don't even realize you do in a manual, that you do. You can do that in an automatic, too. Reach over to the gear selector, move it from D to a lower gear. I can honestly say I don't give a shit whether I'm driving a manual or an automatic. I don't really think about gear changing in either.
yostrovs 4y ago
But anyone that drives a manual will let you know it's mostly about the clutch and how you use it, rather than choosing what gear you're in. Using a clutch just right can produce amazing amount of torque just when you need it. Automatic clutch can be incredibly efficient, but it simply can't know what you want to do.
- mrcartmeneses 4y ago
  Yeah. And the car is just second guessing you in general. I can blip the throttle in my automatic and the car acts like nothing happened at all. Or I’ll put my foot to the floor, nothing happens, then a few seconds later it downshifts and jerks forward. But it’s easy on long journeys and the road is not a racetrack so I can’t complain.
  - yostrovs 4y ago
    Yes, you'd think the car would get the most aggressive when the pedal is to the metal. Instead, I noticed that a strong, but gradual increase on the gas will provide more power.
  - foobarian 4y ago
    I drove an AT rental with a "manual" mode. The AT kept wanting to sit in high gears, which require a lot of torque at low RPMs, which ended up hitting this funny resonant spot in the car and cause an annoying rumble. I ended up running it in manual mode and lower gears.
    - sbaiddn 4y ago
      Rental fleets are so bad now, the first thing I do is figure out how to manually operate the tranny. Then Ill downshift 15 seconds before needing the power. I recently had a car with "10" speeds (it was actually a CVT) and to get any passing power on the highway I had to drop it into 3rd. Shift shift shift shift shift shift shift and then pathetic engine would scream like nothing Ive heard before.
- Maursault 4y ago
galangalalgol 4y ago
I find the clutch is actually what gives me the feeling of control. Also, I skip gears a lot.

by melony 4y ago

ImprovedSilence 4y ago

meh, my wife's car does that, but to me it's not the same. I think if I can put into words what I like about manual transmissions, it's more than just the control to change the gears, it's the actual tactile feeling of removing power from the drivetrain (via clutch), then re-applying it. it's the cliche feeling of "connection" to the car, road, and what's happening. But I understand why the manual is dying. Most people don't want it, today's automatics are much better suited for towing (thus eliminating the manual in trucks and SUVs), and the top of the top of performance cars paddle shift light years faster than anyone could in a proper manual transmission.

pixelpoet 4y ago
Even as someone who hates cars and has never in 40 years had a driver's licence, I get this (have learnt how to drive). Automatic instead of manual feels how I imagine pre-chewed ice cream feels.
calvinmorrison 4y ago
Or how about just being able to anticipate the power band around a corner? Being able to downshift on a hill without thinking about it. Those are things you don't even realize you do in a manual, that you do. case in point, me flooring it on a left hand turn in my moms prius and having to wait a good 500ms for the thing to start moving at all. I know exactly what my manual does in first gear and when, I don't think about it, it's an extension of myself.
- exodust 4y ago
  I drove a manual years ago. It was fun then, but now I prefer the paddle-shift of my "semi-auto", which is still going strong without fault for 15 years. I can downshift before the hill to get revs, and prevent the auto-shift as I go up the hill. Or I can downshift to use engine as brake. No clutch to worry about, and my hands never leave wheel. Long-press the paddle to return to auto for the boring sections. Awesome usability! Could never go back to manual, the paddle-shifters are too much fun and too easy!
- zaarn 4y ago
  I've given up with manual, as a technology, since I've used an EV that didn't have any switching transmission. Just fixed gear ratio. The feeling is better than manual. You always have full power available. There is no RPM regime where an EV won't be able to apply maximum torque. Manual can't beat that feeling. Though I will also say that a modern automatic doesn't need 500 meters. It works almost as well as manual. If you floor the pedal if shifts to apply more torque.
  - superhuzza 4y ago
    He meant 500 milliseconds not 500 metres. Not having any pickup over 500 metres would be insane.
    - zaarn 4y ago
      I am sure that doesn't change the argument at all, most electric motors don't need 500ms to apply force.
      - calvinmorrison 4y ago
        Surely they don't. But that's not what it's about. It's about the fact that I can't reliably gauge how this car works or have good feedback in comparison to my manual.
        zaarn 4y ago
        I would argue you have better feedback and can understand better how it works than manual. There is a fixed ratio gear connecting motor and wheels. Simpler than clutch and transmission by miles. The motor works with electricity and a motor controller, all software. It has reliable performance characteristics.
  - sokoloff 4y ago
    > There is no RPM regime where an EV won't be able to apply maximum torque. Sure there is! Electrics have maximum torque at zero RPM. As RPM increases, their torque drops off. Some cars will have a torque limit that provides for constant torque (less than the motor would be capable of), but as RPM continued to increase, eventually the torque falls off. > You always have full power available. This is also incorrect, but less so than the max torque claim, as power is torque times RPM (times a constant), so as RPM rises and torque falls, power is closer to constant than torque is. Here’s an article covering a dyno test of a plaid Model S: https://electrek.co/2017/02/21/tesla-model-s-p100d-ludicrous-torque-dyno/ https://electrek.co/2017/02/21/tesla-model-s-p100d-ludicrous...
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  > Or how about just being able to anticipate the power band around a corner? Being able to downshift on a hill without thinking about it. Those are things you don't even realize you do in a manual, that you do. You can do that in an automatic, too. Reach over to the gear selector, move it from D to a lower gear. I can honestly say I don't give a shit whether I'm driving a manual or an automatic. I don't really think about gear changing in either.

yostrovs 4y ago

But anyone that drives a manual will let you know it's mostly about the clutch and how you use it, rather than choosing what gear you're in. Using a clutch just right can produce amazing amount of torque just when you need it. Automatic clutch can be incredibly efficient, but it simply can't know what you want to do.

mrcartmeneses 4y ago
Yeah. And the car is just second guessing you in general. I can blip the throttle in my automatic and the car acts like nothing happened at all. Or I’ll put my foot to the floor, nothing happens, then a few seconds later it downshifts and jerks forward. But it’s easy on long journeys and the road is not a racetrack so I can’t complain.
- yostrovs 4y ago
  Yes, you'd think the car would get the most aggressive when the pedal is to the metal. Instead, I noticed that a strong, but gradual increase on the gas will provide more power.
- foobarian 4y ago
  I drove an AT rental with a "manual" mode. The AT kept wanting to sit in high gears, which require a lot of torque at low RPMs, which ended up hitting this funny resonant spot in the car and cause an annoying rumble. I ended up running it in manual mode and lower gears.
  - sbaiddn 4y ago
    Rental fleets are so bad now, the first thing I do is figure out how to manually operate the tranny. Then Ill downshift 15 seconds before needing the power. I recently had a car with "10" speeds (it was actually a CVT) and to get any passing power on the highway I had to drop it into 3rd. Shift shift shift shift shift shift shift and then pathetic engine would scream like nothing Ive heard before.
Maursault 4y ago

galangalalgol 4y ago

I find the clutch is actually what gives me the feeling of control. Also, I skip gears a lot.