5 ms·

Can I add a request? A car that doesn't phone home. That is, one that the government is utterly unable to remotely turn off, monitor, or impose distance quota

Can I add a request? A car that doesn't phone home. That is, one that the government is utterly unable to remotely turn off, monitor, or impose distance quotas. One that cannot be hacked through a poorly secured server in a car maker's server farm or government server with the username/pass admin/admin.

falcolas 4y ago
Forget about the government, I’m more afraid of insurance companies or the manufacturers themselves imposing such limits. Fortunately shielding against one shields against both.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  exactly. I like how its the government thats always the boogieman despite Tesla and BMW already and clearly abusing thier ability to control a car remotely. Corporates have clear motivation to control you and squeese you.
  - hpkuarg 4y ago
    That's because the consumer has the ability to choose (at least currently in the automotive market) a different manufacturer that won't control and squeeze them like Tesla or BMW would. If the big bad government is doing it instead, it means they are mandating the controlling and squeezing with the full might of the government behind it. Of course they're the boogieman.
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      I think that safeguard has already failed, the terms and conidtions allow manufacturer to introduce this functionality to millions of cars that are already on the road, years afterr they were bought
- JasserInicide 4y ago
  It's already started. My insurance State Farm has already advertised you can get a lower rate if you drive around with their dreadful phone application. Won't be long until it's mandated you drive with one or else you're stuck with an "unsafe driver" charge on your insurance.
  - yencabulator 4y ago
    > Won't be long until it's mandated you drive with one or else you're stuck with an "unsafe driver" charge on your insurance. That's already happening, too. "Root" is a car insurance company that only serves "good drivers". Guess how they evaluate your "goodness"? https://www.joinroot.com/car-insurance/telematics/ https://www.joinroot.com/car-insurance/telematics/
  - bkberry352 4y ago
    That's already happening in the sense that companies are able to offer these discounts for their telematics-using customers by surcharging all their other customers. If you're not using one of these devices, you're already paying for it, even if it's not formally recorded as a fee.
smitty1e 4y ago
And, if there is a market for such features, where is the capitalism to service that market? And where are the political candidates to take pliers and a blowtorch to the regulatory barriers to satisfying the customers? Down with all or these regulatory pencil-necks and their doctrine of Portion-Controlled Servings[1], say I. [1] http://www.murashev.com/dmdl/lyrics.php?disk=196 http://www.murashev.com/dmdl/lyrics.php?disk=196
- Grim-444 4y ago
  I'd love to see new car manufacturers doing new things and appealing to different segments of the market, but I imagine there's so much barrier to entry, so many regulations to adhere to, that as a new car manufacturer it'd be near impossible to do anything new/different at this point, unless you're ready to throw billions into it; and even then, the regulations/laws are extensive enough that you'd end up making something 98% the same as what already existed.
recursivedoubts 4y ago
It goes without saying.
QuarterReptile 4y ago
It seems like it should be straightforward to pull out any cell radios, no? I've removed them from cell phones with ease, and I have to think the larger size of a car would lend itself to this being easy.
- dinom 4y ago
  You're making terrible assumptions here. The fact is you'll need special tools and then you'll need to follow a special procedure as if you're defusing a bomb. Otherwise... the radio will phone home and inform the mother-ship it's being tampered with. The prima facie reason is that in case of an accident the car should be able to request help even if everyone inside the car is unconscious. The other reason is, of course, that document you signed at the dealership stated that you've only purchased the _right_to_use_ the car... not the actual car. Have fun with your rental :-) You should have read the fine print.
  - samatman 4y ago
    You made all that up. Why?
    - dinom 4y ago
      I didn't make any of that up.... have you ever removed an onstar unit from a vehicle? Did you ever try to install linux on an xbox360? Radios these days are software defined. They can sit on the same chip that uses a trusted bootloader and also provides an engine control module. Marketing departments can and will bend and pervert engineering specifications to highlight the consumer benefits and minimize the profit motive. QED
      - pjerem 4y ago
        You know that radios can be as software defined they want, they are still requiring antennas.
        4y ago
StanislavPetrov 4y ago
> A car that doesn't phone home. One of many reasons I will never buy a new car and will always buy classic cars no matter how much they cost.
- Ancalagon 4y ago
  Or really anything built before about 2012
coin 4y ago
Somewhat related https://www.thedrive.com/news/43086/new-cars-will-have-to-detect-drunk-drivers-as-early-as-2026 https://www.thedrive.com/news/43086/new-cars-will-have-to-de...
matheusmoreira 4y ago
> government is utterly unable to remotely turn off, monitor, or impose distance quotas This is reality already? I'm starting to think maybe computers were a mistake. I mean how much more screwed up can our world get before it turns into a cyberpunk hell?
- rpod 4y ago
  The Butlerian Jihad will set us free: https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Butlerian_Jihad https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Butlerian_Jihad

falcolas 4y ago

Forget about the government, I’m more afraid of insurance companies or the manufacturers themselves imposing such limits. Fortunately shielding against one shields against both.

ClumsyPilot 4y ago
exactly. I like how its the government thats always the boogieman despite Tesla and BMW already and clearly abusing thier ability to control a car remotely. Corporates have clear motivation to control you and squeese you.
- hpkuarg 4y ago
  That's because the consumer has the ability to choose (at least currently in the automotive market) a different manufacturer that won't control and squeeze them like Tesla or BMW would. If the big bad government is doing it instead, it means they are mandating the controlling and squeezing with the full might of the government behind it. Of course they're the boogieman.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    I think that safeguard has already failed, the terms and conidtions allow manufacturer to introduce this functionality to millions of cars that are already on the road, years afterr they were bought
JasserInicide 4y ago
It's already started. My insurance State Farm has already advertised you can get a lower rate if you drive around with their dreadful phone application. Won't be long until it's mandated you drive with one or else you're stuck with an "unsafe driver" charge on your insurance.
- yencabulator 4y ago
  > Won't be long until it's mandated you drive with one or else you're stuck with an "unsafe driver" charge on your insurance. That's already happening, too. "Root" is a car insurance company that only serves "good drivers". Guess how they evaluate your "goodness"? https://www.joinroot.com/car-insurance/telematics/ https://www.joinroot.com/car-insurance/telematics/
- bkberry352 4y ago
  That's already happening in the sense that companies are able to offer these discounts for their telematics-using customers by surcharging all their other customers. If you're not using one of these devices, you're already paying for it, even if it's not formally recorded as a fee.

smitty1e 4y ago

And, if there is a market for such features, where is the capitalism to service that market? And where are the political candidates to take pliers and a blowtorch to the regulatory barriers to satisfying the customers? Down with all or these regulatory pencil-necks and their doctrine of Portion-Controlled Servings[1], say I. [1] http://www.murashev.com/dmdl/lyrics.php?disk=196 http://www.murashev.com/dmdl/lyrics.php?disk=196

Grim-444 4y ago
I'd love to see new car manufacturers doing new things and appealing to different segments of the market, but I imagine there's so much barrier to entry, so many regulations to adhere to, that as a new car manufacturer it'd be near impossible to do anything new/different at this point, unless you're ready to throw billions into it; and even then, the regulations/laws are extensive enough that you'd end up making something 98% the same as what already existed.

recursivedoubts 4y ago

It goes without saying.

QuarterReptile 4y ago

It seems like it should be straightforward to pull out any cell radios, no? I've removed them from cell phones with ease, and I have to think the larger size of a car would lend itself to this being easy.

dinom 4y ago
You're making terrible assumptions here. The fact is you'll need special tools and then you'll need to follow a special procedure as if you're defusing a bomb. Otherwise... the radio will phone home and inform the mother-ship it's being tampered with. The prima facie reason is that in case of an accident the car should be able to request help even if everyone inside the car is unconscious. The other reason is, of course, that document you signed at the dealership stated that you've only purchased the _right_to_use_ the car... not the actual car. Have fun with your rental :-) You should have read the fine print.
- samatman 4y ago
  You made all that up. Why?
  - dinom 4y ago
    I didn't make any of that up.... have you ever removed an onstar unit from a vehicle? Did you ever try to install linux on an xbox360? Radios these days are software defined. They can sit on the same chip that uses a trusted bootloader and also provides an engine control module. Marketing departments can and will bend and pervert engineering specifications to highlight the consumer benefits and minimize the profit motive. QED
    - pjerem 4y ago
      You know that radios can be as software defined they want, they are still requiring antennas.
      - 4y ago

StanislavPetrov 4y ago

> A car that doesn't phone home. One of many reasons I will never buy a new car and will always buy classic cars no matter how much they cost.

Ancalagon 4y ago
Or really anything built before about 2012

coin 4y ago

Somewhat related https://www.thedrive.com/news/43086/new-cars-will-have-to-detect-drunk-drivers-as-early-as-2026 https://www.thedrive.com/news/43086/new-cars-will-have-to-de...

matheusmoreira 4y ago

> government is utterly unable to remotely turn off, monitor, or impose distance quotas This is reality already? I'm starting to think maybe computers were a mistake. I mean how much more screwed up can our world get before it turns into a cyberpunk hell?

rpod 4y ago
The Butlerian Jihad will set us free: https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Butlerian_Jihad https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Butlerian_Jihad