3 ms·

Special posts given special statuses are by definition not normal HN submissions, so representing them as nearly identical to normal HN submissions is misleadin

by daenz 4y ago

Special posts given special statuses are by definition not normal HN submissions, so representing them as nearly identical to normal HN submissions is misleading.

jacquesm 4y ago
They get posted to the top of the page and automatically decay, they are clearly marked in the title. To begrudge YC this one pay-off for their efforts and funding of HN seems a little entitled to me. No vote arrows, points and comments is distinction enough for me. I don't think I ever clicked on one by mistake, they are pretty obvious. If you think you can build a better HN then maybe you should?
- daenz 4y ago
  The top comment in this thread is the claim that it is a dark pattern, and many of the children comments are supporting that, so maybe consider that your perspective is not the majority one, or it's at least not as clear as you suggest.
  - grzm 4y ago
    I'm sure there are a whole bunch of us that _don't_ find it to be an issue and don't feel the need to prolong its discussion. This type of topic draws in the type of individual that finds it to be an issue: those that don't, move on.
    - daenz 4y ago
      A lack of public support for an idea is not evidence for support for the idea, so I'm not sure why you would even bring up the hypothetical "whole bunch of us" that secretly feel the other way.
      - jacquesm 4y ago
        You've been here for many years and you probably are well aware of all of this, but in case you feel like re-reading an old thread: Nothing new was written in this one that wasn't explicitly covered here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7624792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7624792
        daenz 4y ago
        Thanks, I read it. I don't mind the no-commenting rule tbh, if the submission was tagged as "YC Hiring Announcement" To me, the submissions currently feel like they're trying to present themselves as organic content. I understand you think differently. It would cost YC nothing to explicitly tag them though and put the whole "dark pattern" criticism to rest.
        jacquesm 4y ago
        A 'dark pattern' presumes intent to deceive. Here it is pretty much the opposite: Hackernews started out as a way for YC to talk to their would-be founders (it was called 'start-up news' originally) and the rest of the postings are the noise and those are the signal. If you are unaware of the relationship between YC and HN you could be forgiven but after more than a decade here I don't think that excuse holds. Marking job ads more explicitly won't change anything, it is just a way to pressure YC into making some change to satisfy nit pickers and there is far more important stuff to do, and is as far as I'm concerned off-topic given that the question was 'why can't we comment on these postings' and that question has been answered afaic. Furthermore: the who is hiring threads are there as well for everybody else as well, which given the audience and the fact that these compete directly with YC funded companies should be proof positive that no malicious intent was ever present. If it were then those threads would have never happened.
        daenz 4y ago
        I understand they can do whatever they want, and I also know the relationship between YC and HN. They could make job posts blend in even more, artificially boost YC-positive content, and weigh down YC-negative content, and they would be totally within their rights, and if we don't like it we can leave. I think I understand why you are defending HN. You see how a small community grew to what it is now, and all of the unpaid work that went into that. I don't think that is in conflict with the idea of being super transparent (to the point where it's obvious to everyone) about things like sponsored posts. It's clearly not obvious to everyone. You make a good point about the hiring threads. I agree those are evidence that YC is making an effort to support non YC startups.

by daenz 4y ago

Special posts given special statuses are by definition not normal HN submissions, so representing them as nearly identical to normal HN submissions is misleading.

jacquesm 4y ago

They get posted to the top of the page and automatically decay, they are clearly marked in the title. To begrudge YC this one pay-off for their efforts and funding of HN seems a little entitled to me. No vote arrows, points and comments is distinction enough for me. I don't think I ever clicked on one by mistake, they are pretty obvious. If you think you can build a better HN then maybe you should?

daenz 4y ago
The top comment in this thread is the claim that it is a dark pattern, and many of the children comments are supporting that, so maybe consider that your perspective is not the majority one, or it's at least not as clear as you suggest.
- grzm 4y ago
  I'm sure there are a whole bunch of us that _don't_ find it to be an issue and don't feel the need to prolong its discussion. This type of topic draws in the type of individual that finds it to be an issue: those that don't, move on.
  - daenz 4y ago
    A lack of public support for an idea is not evidence for support for the idea, so I'm not sure why you would even bring up the hypothetical "whole bunch of us" that secretly feel the other way.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      You've been here for many years and you probably are well aware of all of this, but in case you feel like re-reading an old thread: Nothing new was written in this one that wasn't explicitly covered here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7624792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7624792
      - daenz 4y ago
        Thanks, I read it. I don't mind the no-commenting rule tbh, if the submission was tagged as "YC Hiring Announcement" To me, the submissions currently feel like they're trying to present themselves as organic content. I understand you think differently. It would cost YC nothing to explicitly tag them though and put the whole "dark pattern" criticism to rest.
        jacquesm 4y ago
        A 'dark pattern' presumes intent to deceive. Here it is pretty much the opposite: Hackernews started out as a way for YC to talk to their would-be founders (it was called 'start-up news' originally) and the rest of the postings are the noise and those are the signal. If you are unaware of the relationship between YC and HN you could be forgiven but after more than a decade here I don't think that excuse holds. Marking job ads more explicitly won't change anything, it is just a way to pressure YC into making some change to satisfy nit pickers and there is far more important stuff to do, and is as far as I'm concerned off-topic given that the question was 'why can't we comment on these postings' and that question has been answered afaic. Furthermore: the who is hiring threads are there as well for everybody else as well, which given the audience and the fact that these compete directly with YC funded companies should be proof positive that no malicious intent was ever present. If it were then those threads would have never happened.
        daenz 4y ago
        I understand they can do whatever they want, and I also know the relationship between YC and HN. They could make job posts blend in even more, artificially boost YC-positive content, and weigh down YC-negative content, and they would be totally within their rights, and if we don't like it we can leave. I think I understand why you are defending HN. You see how a small community grew to what it is now, and all of the unpaid work that went into that. I don't think that is in conflict with the idea of being super transparent (to the point where it's obvious to everyone) about things like sponsored posts. It's clearly not obvious to everyone. You make a good point about the hiring threads. I agree those are evidence that YC is making an effort to support non YC startups.