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My definition of "HN submission" is "something that any member of the HN community can submit." You seem to be using a different definition that excludes the va

by daenz 4y ago

My definition of "HN submission" is "something that any member of the HN community can submit." You seem to be using a different definition that excludes the vast majority of the HN userbase.

jacquesm 4y ago
I honestly could not care less what your definition is, these have passed through the regular submission queue in the past and it turned into a shitshow and since then they've been given protected status. Clearly that doesn't stop people from wanting to revert that change, which is probably proof that that was an excellent decision.
- daenz 4y ago
  Special posts given special statuses are by definition not normal HN submissions, so representing them as nearly identical to normal HN submissions is misleading.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    They get posted to the top of the page and automatically decay, they are clearly marked in the title. To begrudge YC this one pay-off for their efforts and funding of HN seems a little entitled to me. No vote arrows, points and comments is distinction enough for me. I don't think I ever clicked on one by mistake, they are pretty obvious. If you think you can build a better HN then maybe you should?
    - daenz 4y ago
      The top comment in this thread is the claim that it is a dark pattern, and many of the children comments are supporting that, so maybe consider that your perspective is not the majority one, or it's at least not as clear as you suggest.
      - grzm 4y ago
        I'm sure there are a whole bunch of us that _don't_ find it to be an issue and don't feel the need to prolong its discussion. This type of topic draws in the type of individual that finds it to be an issue: those that don't, move on.
        daenz 4y ago
        A lack of public support for an idea is not evidence for support for the idea, so I'm not sure why you would even bring up the hypothetical "whole bunch of us" that secretly feel the other way.
        jacquesm 4y ago
        You've been here for many years and you probably are well aware of all of this, but in case you feel like re-reading an old thread: Nothing new was written in this one that wasn't explicitly covered here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7624792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7624792
        daenz 4y ago
        Thanks, I read it. I don't mind the no-commenting rule tbh, if the submission was tagged as "YC Hiring Announcement" To me, the submissions currently feel like they're trying to present themselves as organic content. I understand you think differently. It would cost YC nothing to explicitly tag them though and put the whole "dark pattern" criticism to rest.
        jacquesm 4y ago
        A 'dark pattern' presumes intent to deceive. Here it is pretty much the opposite: Hackernews started out as a way for YC to talk to their would-be founders (it was called 'start-up news' originally) and the rest of the postings are the noise and those are the signal. If you are unaware of the relationship between YC and HN you could be forgiven but after more than a decade here I don't think that excuse holds. Marking job ads more explicitly won't change anything, it is just a way to pressure YC into making some change to satisfy nit pickers and there is far more important stuff to do, and is as far as I'm concerned off-topic given that the question was 'why can't we comment on these postings' and that question has been answered afaic. Furthermore: the who is hiring threads are there as well for everybody else as well, which given the audience and the fact that these compete directly with YC funded companies should be proof positive that no malicious intent was ever present. If it were then those threads would have never happened.

by daenz 4y ago

My definition of "HN submission" is "something that any member of the HN community can submit." You seem to be using a different definition that excludes the vast majority of the HN userbase.

jacquesm 4y ago

I honestly could not care less what your definition is, these have passed through the regular submission queue in the past and it turned into a shitshow and since then they've been given protected status. Clearly that doesn't stop people from wanting to revert that change, which is probably proof that that was an excellent decision.

daenz 4y ago
Special posts given special statuses are by definition not normal HN submissions, so representing them as nearly identical to normal HN submissions is misleading.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  They get posted to the top of the page and automatically decay, they are clearly marked in the title. To begrudge YC this one pay-off for their efforts and funding of HN seems a little entitled to me. No vote arrows, points and comments is distinction enough for me. I don't think I ever clicked on one by mistake, they are pretty obvious. If you think you can build a better HN then maybe you should?
  - daenz 4y ago
    The top comment in this thread is the claim that it is a dark pattern, and many of the children comments are supporting that, so maybe consider that your perspective is not the majority one, or it's at least not as clear as you suggest.
    - grzm 4y ago
      I'm sure there are a whole bunch of us that _don't_ find it to be an issue and don't feel the need to prolong its discussion. This type of topic draws in the type of individual that finds it to be an issue: those that don't, move on.
      - daenz 4y ago
        A lack of public support for an idea is not evidence for support for the idea, so I'm not sure why you would even bring up the hypothetical "whole bunch of us" that secretly feel the other way.
        jacquesm 4y ago
        You've been here for many years and you probably are well aware of all of this, but in case you feel like re-reading an old thread: Nothing new was written in this one that wasn't explicitly covered here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7624792 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7624792
        daenz 4y ago
        Thanks, I read it. I don't mind the no-commenting rule tbh, if the submission was tagged as "YC Hiring Announcement" To me, the submissions currently feel like they're trying to present themselves as organic content. I understand you think differently. It would cost YC nothing to explicitly tag them though and put the whole "dark pattern" criticism to rest.
        jacquesm 4y ago
        A 'dark pattern' presumes intent to deceive. Here it is pretty much the opposite: Hackernews started out as a way for YC to talk to their would-be founders (it was called 'start-up news' originally) and the rest of the postings are the noise and those are the signal. If you are unaware of the relationship between YC and HN you could be forgiven but after more than a decade here I don't think that excuse holds. Marking job ads more explicitly won't change anything, it is just a way to pressure YC into making some change to satisfy nit pickers and there is far more important stuff to do, and is as far as I'm concerned off-topic given that the question was 'why can't we comment on these postings' and that question has been answered afaic. Furthermore: the who is hiring threads are there as well for everybody else as well, which given the audience and the fact that these compete directly with YC funded companies should be proof positive that no malicious intent was ever present. If it were then those threads would have never happened.