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Well, e-mail has different uses, I do use mutt and I send plain text email, but I understand sending newsletter with "nice" format in HTML. I am happy that many

by kuon 4y ago

Well, e-mail has different uses, I do use mutt and I send plain text email, but I understand sending newsletter with "nice" format in HTML. I am happy that many includes a "view link" I can just open in my browser if I want to read it. I use lynx for html formatting, which works, except with long confirmation link, for this I use urlscan[1] which let me browse and open links. I don't think email must be loved or hated, it's not black and white, it is an old protocol with lots of problems, but it's also the only working federated protocol (and I do operate my own email server with 0 issues, google/ms never rejected me) which is an important freedom. I agree that many client have bad UX, but many have nice UX, and you are free to use what you want, even if you have a gmail account. [1]: https://github.com/firecat53/urlscan https://github.com/firecat53/urlscan

dane-pgp 4y ago
> the only working federated protocol Even if you're going to discount HTTP, DNS, and IRC for failing to meet various criteria from some definition of "federated", I think we mustn't overlook Matrix here. Sure, you can claim that email is the most popular working federated protocol, or the oldest, or the best, and you could make some weird restriction like "only popular federated store-and-forward protocol", but I'm not sure if that's a helpful distinction. The rest of what you say makes perfect sense though, thank you.
- kuon 4y ago
  Yes I did not mention DNS or BGP but I could have. I do not agree about IRC because networks are not connected together, yes it is not stricly the protocol fault. I do agree with matrix, but it still has a lot to improve before I would consider it working. I tried multiple time to get non technical users on it but it is too hard for them. And it is not a client problem but more an account problem.
  - dane-pgp 4y ago
    > And it is not a client problem but more an account problem. That's interesting, thank you. For what it's worth, it looks like Matrix is going to become much more user-friendly in the coming months[0], and it will be worth taking another look at this "account problem" once they support Open ID Connect (which is also mentioned in that blog post, and has a dedicated progress page[1]). [0] https://matrix.org/blog/2022/08/15/the-matrix-summer-special-2022/ https://matrix.org/blog/2022/08/15/the-matrix-summer-special... [1] https://areweoidcyet.com/ https://areweoidcyet.com/
    - kuon 4y ago
      Yes I think matrix will get there. The issue is complicated because most people just want to use their phone number, while I (and other tech people) want an account we can use without my phone. There is also contact import/sync, data backup, not having to deal with encryption "at all"...

by kuon 4y ago

dane-pgp 4y ago

> the only working federated protocol Even if you're going to discount HTTP, DNS, and IRC for failing to meet various criteria from some definition of "federated", I think we mustn't overlook Matrix here. Sure, you can claim that email is the most popular working federated protocol, or the oldest, or the best, and you could make some weird restriction like "only popular federated store-and-forward protocol", but I'm not sure if that's a helpful distinction. The rest of what you say makes perfect sense though, thank you.

kuon 4y ago
Yes I did not mention DNS or BGP but I could have. I do not agree about IRC because networks are not connected together, yes it is not stricly the protocol fault. I do agree with matrix, but it still has a lot to improve before I would consider it working. I tried multiple time to get non technical users on it but it is too hard for them. And it is not a client problem but more an account problem.
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  > And it is not a client problem but more an account problem. That's interesting, thank you. For what it's worth, it looks like Matrix is going to become much more user-friendly in the coming months[0], and it will be worth taking another look at this "account problem" once they support Open ID Connect (which is also mentioned in that blog post, and has a dedicated progress page[1]). [0] https://matrix.org/blog/2022/08/15/the-matrix-summer-special-2022/ https://matrix.org/blog/2022/08/15/the-matrix-summer-special... [1] https://areweoidcyet.com/ https://areweoidcyet.com/
  - kuon 4y ago
    Yes I think matrix will get there. The issue is complicated because most people just want to use their phone number, while I (and other tech people) want an account we can use without my phone. There is also contact import/sync, data backup, not having to deal with encryption "at all"...