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If we're going by formal definitions, here are a few[0]: More broadly, dark patterns supplant "user value...in favor of shareholder value". a user interfa
by daenz 4y ago
If we're going by formal definitions, here are a few[0]:
More broadly, dark patterns supplant "user value...in favor of shareholder value".
a user interface that has been carefully crafted to trick users into doing things, such as buying overpriced insurance with their purchase or signing up for recurring bills
The hiring posts are deliberately made to look like every other submission, with the exception of not being able to comment on them. So in that way, they're misleading about what they are. They don't really trick users into doing anything, unless you count clicks from users who think they're about to engage with actual community content.
0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_pattern https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_pattern
- ALittleLight 4y agoThe posts are explicitly differentiated from normal submissions - you can't comment and they usually say something like "X (YC year) is hiring". That's not a dark pattern. I agree that some people may not understand what or why these posts are and not look into it (answers are easily available) - but that doesn't make this a dark pattern. Hackernews has minimal ads, lax account requirements, professional moderation, minimal intrusion from owners - and you are hyperventilating about 1 post in a 100 being a marked ad?
- boredemployee 4y agoreally arbitrary moderation imho
- nopehnnope 4y ago[flagged]
- daenz 4y agoI'm not "hyperventilating", I am attempting to answer your question...no need to be rude. Clearly it's a matter of opinion about where the line of "dark pattern" starts.
- ALittleLight 4y agoIf you expect people to be completely nice to you, perhaps you should not falsely accuse others of manipulating users for profit.
- daenz 4y agoI disagree that it's a false accusation. YCombinator benefits financially from putting their job postings on the front page, I think we can all agree on that. You seem to disagree that it's "manipulation" to make their job posting look nearly identical to a normal, organic user submission. I think it is a subtle dark pattern and explained my reasoning.
- ALittleLight 4y agoYou can't vote on it, you can't comment, and the title fits the pattern I mentioned earlier - it's absurd to describe this as "nearly identical" to the normal submission. Having occasional, untargetted, marked, on topic advertising on a free site is about as far from "dark pattern" as it is possible to be.
- daenz 4y agoA dark pattern has nothing to do with whether they're justified in doing it (for instance, because this is a free site). The submissions could be marked with "YC Sponsored Post" they're still totally justified in doing it, but it would be less of a dark pattern than it is now.
- jacquesm 4y agoThey are not 'deliberately made to look like every other submission', they simply look like every other submission because that's what HN submissions look like. If they were made to stand out you'd likely be complaining that they get even more preferential treatment because they stand out. If you don't like them just ignore them. There is nothing misleading about them and they don't trick users because the vast bulk of the visitors to HN knows what these are and if you didn't it's explained in the docs. They don't trick you into buying anything and they don't serve to market the product of the start-up that is posting the position. The only difference is that they don't have to wait until the 1st of the month and that they get to post an item all by themselves, which seems like a pretty small price to pay compared to say having a site full of advertising or some massive commercial drive. HN is rather more than less restricted whenever the companies that YC invests in come up, this is the one exception.
- daenz 4y ago>they simply look like every other submission because that's what HN submissions look like. But they're not HN submissions, that's the point. >If they were made to stand out you'd likely be complaining that they get even more preferential treatment because they stand out. No I wouldn't, but thanks for telling me how I would feel.
- jacquesm 4y agoThey are HN submissions, but they are restricted in functionality because of past experiences with those ads when they were treated as ordinary submissions. If you want to discuss the company or its products you are entirely free to post an article or a text submission. The amount of entitlement in this thread is quite revolting.
- daenz 4y agoMy definition of "HN submission" is "something that any member of the HN community can submit." You seem to be using a different definition that excludes the vast majority of the HN userbase.