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Why do so many people think "I had to do something before, so if people don't have to do it in the future, that's punishing me"? You'd have paid those loans whe

Why do so many people think "I had to do something before, so if people don't have to do it in the future, that's punishing me"? You'd have paid those loans whether this policy is put into effect now or not; it's in the past. Smallpox was basically eradicated, but vaccines didn't "punish" people who died from it before they were invented.

agitator 4y ago
Because if you for example you held off on buying a house to pay off loans, and the day after you saved up enough for your down payment, your buddy Jeff, who ignored his loans, racking up interest, making questionable financial decisions, suddenly gets his loans payed off and now is competing in the housing market with you and everyone else, and home prices rise as a result, pushing your first home out of reach yet again, you are going to be pretty pissed off.
- IceMetalPunk 4y ago
  On the other hand, if my other buddy Alice was unable to pay her loans and struggling to pay for food without debt collectors knocking at her door, and now doesn't have to deal with that anymore, that'd offset my ire. In fact, in a case like that, you should be pissed off at Jeff, not at the people helping everyone which happens to include Jeff.
  - agitator 4y ago
    So why not a tax return for all lower income brackets? Why should someone with a B.A. be fed and not someone with only a high school diploma?
    - IceMetalPunk 4y ago
      It's not about feeding people with a degree. It's about reducing the punishment they had but shouldn't have. Ideally, higher education wouldn't cost extra, or at least not excessively so. But since it does, these efforts are to counteract that existing punishment, nothing more or less.
      - Ekaros 4y ago
        Should those specially seeking education be capable of doing reasonably simple calculations before taking massive amount of loans? It is not like the information of anything related was exactly hidden.
        IceMetalPunk 4y ago
        Who said anything was hidden? Most high school graduates in the US understand that going to college almost certainly means a lifetime of debt. But they also recognize the opportunity cost of being uneducated, which they deem a greater cost than the financial cost of loans. And please don't claim that's invalid, because (a) I agree, which is why I did it, and (b) claiming it's invalid implies that money is the only thing of importance in a person's life, which is kind of dystopian a view.
        Ekaros 4y ago
        So they made a decision that opportunity > debt. Thus I see no reason to have others pay for their decisions. They freely chose that option. They should be adult enough to live with it and not ask for handouts with tax payers money.
        IceMetalPunk 4y ago
        Do you live on a deserted island alone? If not, then why do you seem to think the opportunity cost of other people being uneducated -- your neighbors, local business owners, motorists driving by your house, voters, politicians, etc. -- is only a cost to them, and doesn't affect your life?
Ekaros 4y ago
Because this money is not free. It comes from the blood and sweat of other tax payers. And goes to clearly morally bankrupt portion of population. Those who over spend with debt money. This likely resulting them repeating such poor decisions as state will be there to fix their own failures.
- IceMetalPunk 4y ago
  > Because this money is not free. It comes from the blood and sweat of other tax payers. Care to take a guess at how much money -- sorry, "blood and sweat" -- this will cost a taxpayer? $200/year. How much is annual tuition in the US? $8,000 on average, $2,000 at my local public college. If this paves the way for future policies to forgive new loans similarly, that $200/year will decrease as the backlog of existing loans are out of the pool. At which point, every single taxpayer could get the same education for less than $200/year as opposed to $2,000 - $15,000+. ($2,000 being the cost of my local public college, $15,000 being the annual tuition at the school I attended; the + meaning I understand there are more expensive places.) This is not "the blood and sweat of taxpayers". This is 2 weeks' food bills spread over 52 weeks with the potential to give those taxpayers an education along with everyone else who they're paying taxes for. > And goes to clearly morally bankrupt portion of population. Those who over spend with debt money. So you can't think of any reasons someone might have student loan debt other than "they made bad choices and are immorally expecting other people to pay for it"?
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    So why not start forgiving credit card debt regularly too with other tax payers money? There is lot more of it and it causes even more issues. Or payday loans?
    - IceMetalPunk 4y ago
      Credit card debt can be for anything. Student loans are only for education. No one's trying to subsidize your new car, only something that's important to society.
heartbreak 4y ago
You’re forgetting the fairly large group of people who now have neither a college degree nor $10k in loan forgiveness. Oh, and those folks still pay taxes toward this $300b price tag.
- IceMetalPunk 4y ago
  Yep. $12/month in taxes to help their fellow members of society. Less money than a Netflix subscription to help many people literally afford food. People who have massive student loan debt that this "fairly large group" does not have. I'm not sorry to say that if people think it's valid to argue "I shouldn't have to pay $12/month to help other people live a healthy life", then our society is broken because the people in it are broken.

agitator 4y ago

Because if you for example you held off on buying a house to pay off loans, and the day after you saved up enough for your down payment, your buddy Jeff, who ignored his loans, racking up interest, making questionable financial decisions, suddenly gets his loans payed off and now is competing in the housing market with you and everyone else, and home prices rise as a result, pushing your first home out of reach yet again, you are going to be pretty pissed off.

IceMetalPunk 4y ago
On the other hand, if my other buddy Alice was unable to pay her loans and struggling to pay for food without debt collectors knocking at her door, and now doesn't have to deal with that anymore, that'd offset my ire. In fact, in a case like that, you should be pissed off at Jeff, not at the people helping everyone which happens to include Jeff.
- agitator 4y ago
  So why not a tax return for all lower income brackets? Why should someone with a B.A. be fed and not someone with only a high school diploma?
  - IceMetalPunk 4y ago
    It's not about feeding people with a degree. It's about reducing the punishment they had but shouldn't have. Ideally, higher education wouldn't cost extra, or at least not excessively so. But since it does, these efforts are to counteract that existing punishment, nothing more or less.
    - Ekaros 4y ago
      Should those specially seeking education be capable of doing reasonably simple calculations before taking massive amount of loans? It is not like the information of anything related was exactly hidden.
      - IceMetalPunk 4y ago
        Who said anything was hidden? Most high school graduates in the US understand that going to college almost certainly means a lifetime of debt. But they also recognize the opportunity cost of being uneducated, which they deem a greater cost than the financial cost of loans. And please don't claim that's invalid, because (a) I agree, which is why I did it, and (b) claiming it's invalid implies that money is the only thing of importance in a person's life, which is kind of dystopian a view.
        Ekaros 4y ago
        So they made a decision that opportunity > debt. Thus I see no reason to have others pay for their decisions. They freely chose that option. They should be adult enough to live with it and not ask for handouts with tax payers money.
        IceMetalPunk 4y ago
        Do you live on a deserted island alone? If not, then why do you seem to think the opportunity cost of other people being uneducated -- your neighbors, local business owners, motorists driving by your house, voters, politicians, etc. -- is only a cost to them, and doesn't affect your life?

Ekaros 4y ago

Because this money is not free. It comes from the blood and sweat of other tax payers. And goes to clearly morally bankrupt portion of population. Those who over spend with debt money. This likely resulting them repeating such poor decisions as state will be there to fix their own failures.

IceMetalPunk 4y ago
> Because this money is not free. It comes from the blood and sweat of other tax payers. Care to take a guess at how much money -- sorry, "blood and sweat" -- this will cost a taxpayer? $200/year. How much is annual tuition in the US? $8,000 on average, $2,000 at my local public college. If this paves the way for future policies to forgive new loans similarly, that $200/year will decrease as the backlog of existing loans are out of the pool. At which point, every single taxpayer could get the same education for less than $200/year as opposed to $2,000 - $15,000+. ($2,000 being the cost of my local public college, $15,000 being the annual tuition at the school I attended; the + meaning I understand there are more expensive places.) This is not "the blood and sweat of taxpayers". This is 2 weeks' food bills spread over 52 weeks with the potential to give those taxpayers an education along with everyone else who they're paying taxes for. > And goes to clearly morally bankrupt portion of population. Those who over spend with debt money. So you can't think of any reasons someone might have student loan debt other than "they made bad choices and are immorally expecting other people to pay for it"?
- Ekaros 4y ago
  So why not start forgiving credit card debt regularly too with other tax payers money? There is lot more of it and it causes even more issues. Or payday loans?
  - IceMetalPunk 4y ago
    Credit card debt can be for anything. Student loans are only for education. No one's trying to subsidize your new car, only something that's important to society.

heartbreak 4y ago

You’re forgetting the fairly large group of people who now have neither a college degree nor $10k in loan forgiveness. Oh, and those folks still pay taxes toward this $300b price tag.

IceMetalPunk 4y ago
Yep. $12/month in taxes to help their fellow members of society. Less money than a Netflix subscription to help many people literally afford food. People who have massive student loan debt that this "fairly large group" does not have. I'm not sorry to say that if people think it's valid to argue "I shouldn't have to pay $12/month to help other people live a healthy life", then our society is broken because the people in it are broken.