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If you can't be competitive without grinding your people into hamburger you don't deserve to exist. We need to build a more human-first society and it starts by

If you can't be competitive without grinding your people into hamburger you don't deserve to exist. We need to build a more human-first society and it starts by eliminating these sorts of "loopholes" letting businesses off the hook for abusive practices "because people knew what they were signing up for" Indentured servants knew what they were signing up for too, it was still selling yourself into slavery.

awillen 4y ago
Whatever developer takes this job will inevitably be able to quit and get another, high-paying job with fine WLB whenever they want. It's not comparable to indentured servitude in any way. There is absolutely a difference between offering poor working conditions to people who are powerless and easily exploited, vs. offering them to people who have a tremendous degree of power and the ability to exit those poor working conditions at any time.
- clpm4j 4y ago
  Good point. There are probably 100 seniors at UC Berkeley EECS ready to sign up for this opportunity.
- oneayy4 4y ago
- serverholic 4y ago
  The problem is accepting companies with poor working conditions also serves to normalize poor working conditions. Also, if people want to grind they can do so at at any company. I don’t think any company is going to tell them to stop working. The difference is if the company promotes that culture.
solveit 4y ago
People who know what they're signing up for are signing up because it's their least worst option. Taking that away sounds counterproductive without a way to materialize a better option. And if you could get them a better option, you wouldn't have to eliminate the worse options, would you?
cercatrova 4y ago
Only on HN would someone compare software engineering to slavery. Give me a break.
kbelder 4y ago
A key point about slavery is that you couldn't shrug and walk away anytime you wanted.

awillen 4y ago

Whatever developer takes this job will inevitably be able to quit and get another, high-paying job with fine WLB whenever they want. It's not comparable to indentured servitude in any way. There is absolutely a difference between offering poor working conditions to people who are powerless and easily exploited, vs. offering them to people who have a tremendous degree of power and the ability to exit those poor working conditions at any time.

clpm4j 4y ago
Good point. There are probably 100 seniors at UC Berkeley EECS ready to sign up for this opportunity.
oneayy4 4y ago
serverholic 4y ago
The problem is accepting companies with poor working conditions also serves to normalize poor working conditions. Also, if people want to grind they can do so at at any company. I don’t think any company is going to tell them to stop working. The difference is if the company promotes that culture.

solveit 4y ago

People who know what they're signing up for are signing up because it's their least worst option. Taking that away sounds counterproductive without a way to materialize a better option. And if you could get them a better option, you wouldn't have to eliminate the worse options, would you?

cercatrova 4y ago

Only on HN would someone compare software engineering to slavery. Give me a break.

kbelder 4y ago

A key point about slavery is that you couldn't shrug and walk away anytime you wanted.