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I'm real bullish on electrification of everything, but the necessary service upgrades for me to get a level 2 charger on my property would cost on the order of

by klyrs 4y ago

I'm real bullish on electrification of everything, but the necessary service upgrades for me to get a level 2 charger on my property would cost on the order of $5-10k. Edit: typo corrected, I said level 3 previously

Loudergood 4y ago
I'm honestly curious as to why you would need anything more than a Level 2 charger at home.
- m463 4y ago
  Maybe they meant Level 2? A level 3 charger can easily use more electricity than an entire household (250kw is becoming more common now) Also, many cars can level 2 charge through the onboard inverter at fairly high levels, 48 amps ~ 11.5kw
- klyrs 4y ago
  Ack, that was a typo
cp9 4y ago
fyi the inflation reduction act will cut a good chunk of that for you (assuming you're in the US) > The Alternative Fuel Refueling Property Credit expired at the end of 2021, but the Inflation Reduction Act gave it life again by extending its application through 2032. For homeowners, the credit is worth 30% of the costs of "qualified alternative fuel vehicle refueling property" installed in the home, up to $1,000.
- cp9 4y ago
  forgot to cite it, it's from https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/605069/inflation-reduction-act-tax-credits-energy-efficient-home-improvements https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/605069/inflation-reduction-a...
- r00fus 4y ago
  The IRA kinda ruined the AFRPC because it's now only 30% if you're in an eligible jurisdiction (ie, low-income area). Otherwise, you get 6%.
throwaway894345 4y ago
Yeah, same for me (I live in a condo building and our parking lot is not adjacent to the building). My wife and I bought a Tesla back in November of last year, and charging at superchargers hasn't been terribly inconvenient. If you do it too much, your peak charge rate gets limited by a small amount, but we haven't noticed it and we have 15k miles on it already. That said, it will be really nice to have a level 2 charger at our next place.
r00fus 4y ago
I find this surprising. I specced out an L2 charger and it did cost me $2K for the install + charger a few years ago (in an expensive market). The install required a new 100A line pulled to my garage as I had no existing washer/dryer there. What else would you need to support L2 than an extra breaker entry for a 100A?
- klyrs 4y ago
  We'd need to upgrade our panel, as it's already maxed out. On top of that, we'd also have to pay the power company to upgrade their distribution box and the wiring that's buried in a trench that runs under the garage. And, joy of medium density, we'd need about 10 other households to get in on the action and the price I quoted is per unit. Basically, the problem that we're experiencing is that everybody in the neighborhood has already maxed out their service. Infrastructure upgrades are painful.
  - pfdietz 4y ago
    Maybe you should install some PV? Not because it could produce cheaper power (although it might), but to get around the supply constraint.
gpapilion 4y ago
I’m assuming you live in an old house with 100amp or below service. Doesn’t this apply to adding any high current appliances as well?
ZeroGravitas 4y ago
I don't know if these exist on the market for consumers, but the way that the big superchargers work around this is to co-locate battery storage, so they can trickle charge from the grid and then fast charge to the car. If you're going to need to spend 10K it feels like you could possibly better spend that on solar and/or batteries. Here's a portable charger which claims that it costs the same as a home charger install: https://www.zipcharge.global/ https://www.zipcharge.global/ And less geekily, you may just not need a level 2 charger or a full speed level 2 charger: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2019/12/11/dont-spend-a-fortune-installing-charging-for-your-new-electric-car/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2019/12/11/dont-s...
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  That "Zip" thing would be massively improved if it did not act as a car charger but as a portable car battery. Instead of - like the background video shows - taking the thing out of the car, hooking it up to the car charge socket and waiting 60 minutes it should just plug into the car power circuit through a connector in that same trunk, just leave it there and drive the car using power from the thing. This feels like the EV-approach to a spare petrol can in the trunk which itself was the ICE-approach to the bag of oats in the buggy.

by klyrs 4y ago

Loudergood 4y ago

I'm honestly curious as to why you would need anything more than a Level 2 charger at home.

m463 4y ago
Maybe they meant Level 2? A level 3 charger can easily use more electricity than an entire household (250kw is becoming more common now) Also, many cars can level 2 charge through the onboard inverter at fairly high levels, 48 amps ~ 11.5kw
klyrs 4y ago
Ack, that was a typo

cp9 4y ago

fyi the inflation reduction act will cut a good chunk of that for you (assuming you're in the US) > The Alternative Fuel Refueling Property Credit expired at the end of 2021, but the Inflation Reduction Act gave it life again by extending its application through 2032. For homeowners, the credit is worth 30% of the costs of "qualified alternative fuel vehicle refueling property" installed in the home, up to $1,000.

cp9 4y ago
forgot to cite it, it's from https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/605069/inflation-reduction-act-tax-credits-energy-efficient-home-improvements https://www.kiplinger.com/taxes/605069/inflation-reduction-a...
r00fus 4y ago
The IRA kinda ruined the AFRPC because it's now only 30% if you're in an eligible jurisdiction (ie, low-income area). Otherwise, you get 6%.

throwaway894345 4y ago

Yeah, same for me (I live in a condo building and our parking lot is not adjacent to the building). My wife and I bought a Tesla back in November of last year, and charging at superchargers hasn't been terribly inconvenient. If you do it too much, your peak charge rate gets limited by a small amount, but we haven't noticed it and we have 15k miles on it already. That said, it will be really nice to have a level 2 charger at our next place.

r00fus 4y ago

I find this surprising. I specced out an L2 charger and it did cost me $2K for the install + charger a few years ago (in an expensive market). The install required a new 100A line pulled to my garage as I had no existing washer/dryer there. What else would you need to support L2 than an extra breaker entry for a 100A?

klyrs 4y ago
We'd need to upgrade our panel, as it's already maxed out. On top of that, we'd also have to pay the power company to upgrade their distribution box and the wiring that's buried in a trench that runs under the garage. And, joy of medium density, we'd need about 10 other households to get in on the action and the price I quoted is per unit. Basically, the problem that we're experiencing is that everybody in the neighborhood has already maxed out their service. Infrastructure upgrades are painful.
- pfdietz 4y ago
  Maybe you should install some PV? Not because it could produce cheaper power (although it might), but to get around the supply constraint.

gpapilion 4y ago

I’m assuming you live in an old house with 100amp or below service. Doesn’t this apply to adding any high current appliances as well?

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

I don't know if these exist on the market for consumers, but the way that the big superchargers work around this is to co-locate battery storage, so they can trickle charge from the grid and then fast charge to the car. If you're going to need to spend 10K it feels like you could possibly better spend that on solar and/or batteries. Here's a portable charger which claims that it costs the same as a home charger install: https://www.zipcharge.global/ https://www.zipcharge.global/ And less geekily, you may just not need a level 2 charger or a full speed level 2 charger: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2019/12/11/dont-spend-a-fortune-installing-charging-for-your-new-electric-car/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtempleton/2019/12/11/dont-s...

the_third_wave 4y ago
That "Zip" thing would be massively improved if it did not act as a car charger but as a portable car battery. Instead of - like the background video shows - taking the thing out of the car, hooking it up to the car charge socket and waiting 60 minutes it should just plug into the car power circuit through a connector in that same trunk, just leave it there and drive the car using power from the thing. This feels like the EV-approach to a spare petrol can in the trunk which itself was the ICE-approach to the bag of oats in the buggy.