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1) Apple doesn't need an "excuse", it only needs a reason, and it has one 2) The reason is, they know that the moment they allow all the stuff you're talking a

by Bud 4y ago

1) Apple doesn't need an "excuse", it only needs a reason, and it has one 2) The reason is, they know that the moment they allow all the stuff you're talking about, we'll all be in the wild West again, with God knows what fucking version of Chrome being run, and it will be a nightmare to support, and a nightmare environment in which to protect privacy and security 3) Users have conclusively voted for it to be this way. We know it's this way and we're still buying iPhones instead of Android. What's annoying to me is that people like you, a lot of people, are still unable to summon any respect for the legitimacy of THAT choice. You can only think of the choice that YOU want.

v0idzer0 4y ago
Yeah the people who think they want this really don’t want this. One of the biggest advantages of the iPhone over Android is the lack of version fragmentation. Not just in the OS but in the browser. It’s a better developer experience which leads to a better user experience.
Finnucane 4y ago
I think you underestimate the number of iphone/ipad users who would switch browsers if there was a meaningful choice.
- sgammon 4y ago
  I think you overestimate the number of iphone/ipad users who can point to the app that is their "browser"
dane-pgp 4y ago
> Users have conclusively voted for it to be this way. We know it's this way and we're still buying iPhones instead of Android. That's like saying that every voter in a democracy approves of every policy implemented by the politician they voted for (especially if they re-elect that politician). The world is not as simple as that, and I think the general term for this erroneous line of thinking is "the fallacy of division". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_division https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_division
- Bud 4y ago
  No, it's not even close to that. I'm referring to one issue, obviously, and it's a fairly clear and major issue. The issue in question is also representative of larger and even more obvious issues regarding the inherent conflict between total user choice on one hand, and a degree of top-down OS control that keeps users in a walled garden but provides some protections, on the other.
  - v0idzer0 4y ago
    Users don’t know what they want. They don’t deserve to make every decision, because they’re often missing context or misinformed. For example, you think you want this, but as soon as you get it, you’ll want the opposite. Version fragmentation leads to bugs, security vulnerabilities and poor overall user experience which is all you’ll really get with this change. Perhaps you’d make that tradeoff for the illusion of freedom, but the vast majority would not and Apple has to consider all their customers.
jjav 4y ago
> Users have conclusively voted for it to be this way I'm pretty confident that you'll need to interview a lot of iphone users from the general population before finding one that even knows about browser implementation internals in iOS, let alone who cares enough to have voted with their wallet for this particular reason. So no, users have not voted conclusively for it to be that way.
- Bud 4y ago
  Could we at least argue honestly? This isn't about "browser implementation internals". A lot of users are aware of the basic issue about browser choice in iOS. Granted, some are oblivious, but a lot know the basics of what is going on.

by Bud 4y ago

v0idzer0 4y ago

Yeah the people who think they want this really don’t want this. One of the biggest advantages of the iPhone over Android is the lack of version fragmentation. Not just in the OS but in the browser. It’s a better developer experience which leads to a better user experience.

Finnucane 4y ago

I think you underestimate the number of iphone/ipad users who would switch browsers if there was a meaningful choice.

sgammon 4y ago
I think you overestimate the number of iphone/ipad users who can point to the app that is their "browser"

dane-pgp 4y ago

> Users have conclusively voted for it to be this way. We know it's this way and we're still buying iPhones instead of Android. That's like saying that every voter in a democracy approves of every policy implemented by the politician they voted for (especially if they re-elect that politician). The world is not as simple as that, and I think the general term for this erroneous line of thinking is "the fallacy of division". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_division https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_division

Bud 4y ago
No, it's not even close to that. I'm referring to one issue, obviously, and it's a fairly clear and major issue. The issue in question is also representative of larger and even more obvious issues regarding the inherent conflict between total user choice on one hand, and a degree of top-down OS control that keeps users in a walled garden but provides some protections, on the other.
- v0idzer0 4y ago
  Users don’t know what they want. They don’t deserve to make every decision, because they’re often missing context or misinformed. For example, you think you want this, but as soon as you get it, you’ll want the opposite. Version fragmentation leads to bugs, security vulnerabilities and poor overall user experience which is all you’ll really get with this change. Perhaps you’d make that tradeoff for the illusion of freedom, but the vast majority would not and Apple has to consider all their customers.

jjav 4y ago

> Users have conclusively voted for it to be this way I'm pretty confident that you'll need to interview a lot of iphone users from the general population before finding one that even knows about browser implementation internals in iOS, let alone who cares enough to have voted with their wallet for this particular reason. So no, users have not voted conclusively for it to be that way.

Bud 4y ago
Could we at least argue honestly? This isn't about "browser implementation internals". A lot of users are aware of the basic issue about browser choice in iOS. Granted, some are oblivious, but a lot know the basics of what is going on.