4 ms·

Your defense is "I, notch656a, know that I misrepresented the facts, and I'm okay with that"?

notch656a 4y ago
No it's that it's pointless for me to respond to someone who responds to an objective truthful fact with a 'no' along with a bunch of handwaving about providing an education for $130.
- IceMetalPunk 4y ago
  ...If you read past the first two letters, you'd see that I explained why what you said is not an "objective, truthful fact", but a misrepresentation of the actual facts. Or you can read a single word, ignore the rest, and tell yourself you're superior without actually knowing what I said shrug Also, thank you for reminding me that mathematics is "handwaving". It's good to remember that math is useless and doesn't actually show anything real. We may as well not teach it at all in schools, since it's all just "handwaving".
- IceMetalPunk 4y ago
  Here, if you prefer specific, actual numbers rather than an example of the concept, I will do your homework for you. There are 144.3 million taxpayers in the US, and 329.5 million people. Using the still-accurate numbers of 8% of the population being in college at any given time, and the average college tuition in the US of $8,000/year, we can do the same calculation: (0.08 * 329,500,000 people * $8,000/yr) / (144,300,000 taxpayers) = $1461.40. In other words, by subsidizing higher education with taxes, every person in the country could attend college for about 1/5 the cost, as opposed to "only people who can afford at least $8,000/year can attend college, and it costs them 5x as much as it otherwise would." Those are real numbers. Does that make it feel less "hand-waving" to you?
  - notch656a 4y ago
    So I go to college. The real cost is $8000/year. That's $32,000 in cost for 4 year degree. Then I pay $1461.40 in taxes a year for 40 years (we'll control inflation at 0%, otherwise both my income and tuition rises) while I'm working, assuming I retire at ~62 which is fairly typical. I just paid $58,440 for $32000 of college. This is a good deal why? I was better off when no one was helping me.
    - IceMetalPunk 4y ago
      Because while you're getting the benefit, you're not the only one benefiting. The benefit applies to you as well as to everyone else. So your calculation should be "I paid $58,440 in taxes, but I saved $32,000 on tuition for myself, so I actually only paid $26,440 to help everyone else in the country get the same $32,000 education that I did." Why do you live in a society, where you depend on other people, if you're not willing to help those who depend on you?
      - notch656a 4y ago
        I see, this isn't about making things better for the working stiff. Everybody in your plan goes to college, so this includes the janitor and trash man too who is paying $58k for a $32k education. No this isn't about making college more affordable for the regular working stiff (it actually does the opposite). It's about enforcing your favored version of charity at the gun point of taxes. >so I actually only paid $26,440 to help I don't understand, what's stopping you from doing that now? Just go to some university's school tour as part of a group of potential students and offer somebody $26k for tuition. You'll find a taker. Your dream can become a reality and it doesn't even involve you convincing 51% of the population/reps to vote for it.

No it's that it's pointless for me to respond to someone who responds to an objective truthful fact with a 'no' along with a bunch of handwaving about providing an education for $130.

IceMetalPunk 4y ago
...If you read past the first two letters, you'd see that I explained why what you said is not an "objective, truthful fact", but a misrepresentation of the actual facts. Or you can read a single word, ignore the rest, and tell yourself you're superior without actually knowing what I said shrug Also, thank you for reminding me that mathematics is "handwaving". It's good to remember that math is useless and doesn't actually show anything real. We may as well not teach it at all in schools, since it's all just "handwaving".
IceMetalPunk 4y ago
Here, if you prefer specific, actual numbers rather than an example of the concept, I will do your homework for you. There are 144.3 million taxpayers in the US, and 329.5 million people. Using the still-accurate numbers of 8% of the population being in college at any given time, and the average college tuition in the US of $8,000/year, we can do the same calculation: (0.08 * 329,500,000 people * $8,000/yr) / (144,300,000 taxpayers) = $1461.40. In other words, by subsidizing higher education with taxes, every person in the country could attend college for about 1/5 the cost, as opposed to "only people who can afford at least $8,000/year can attend college, and it costs them 5x as much as it otherwise would." Those are real numbers. Does that make it feel less "hand-waving" to you?
- notch656a 4y ago
  So I go to college. The real cost is $8000/year. That's $32,000 in cost for 4 year degree. Then I pay $1461.40 in taxes a year for 40 years (we'll control inflation at 0%, otherwise both my income and tuition rises) while I'm working, assuming I retire at ~62 which is fairly typical. I just paid $58,440 for $32000 of college. This is a good deal why? I was better off when no one was helping me.
  - IceMetalPunk 4y ago
    Because while you're getting the benefit, you're not the only one benefiting. The benefit applies to you as well as to everyone else. So your calculation should be "I paid $58,440 in taxes, but I saved $32,000 on tuition for myself, so I actually only paid $26,440 to help everyone else in the country get the same $32,000 education that I did." Why do you live in a society, where you depend on other people, if you're not willing to help those who depend on you?
    - notch656a 4y ago
      I see, this isn't about making things better for the working stiff. Everybody in your plan goes to college, so this includes the janitor and trash man too who is paying $58k for a $32k education. No this isn't about making college more affordable for the regular working stiff (it actually does the opposite). It's about enforcing your favored version of charity at the gun point of taxes. >so I actually only paid $26,440 to help I don't understand, what's stopping you from doing that now? Just go to some university's school tour as part of a group of potential students and offer somebody $26k for tuition. You'll find a taker. Your dream can become a reality and it doesn't even involve you convincing 51% of the population/reps to vote for it.