5 ms·

Why don't we promote more single-use aluminum containers? Are aluminum cans considered a success in terms of recycling and not going into the landfill? Why don'

by proee 4y ago

Why don't we promote more single-use aluminum containers? Are aluminum cans considered a success in terms of recycling and not going into the landfill? Why don't we have aluminum yogurt containers, aluminum milk cartons, etc? Has the 5-cent deposit program by some states been a success? If so, this seems like a good solution for more products than just beverages. Aluminum seems like a really cool material for packaging. One obvious downside though is that aluminum is not clear.

eatbitseveryday 4y ago
Agreed, though some folks will remind us that alu cans are lined with plastic (which is more a health argument than recycling), but similar to paper cartons, that may need to be stripped prior to recycling.
eptcyka 4y ago
Aluminum is no panacea - its expensive to mine both ecologically and energy wise, and its energy intensive to recycle. I'd be more interested in reusable containers.
- shagie 4y ago
  https://recycling.world-aluminium.org/review/sustainability/ https://recycling.world-aluminium.org/review/sustainability/ https://citizensustainable.com/recycling-aluminum/ https://citizensustainable.com/recycling-aluminum/ https://www.treehugger.com/the-benefits-of-aluminum-recycling-1204138 https://www.treehugger.com/the-benefits-of-aluminum-recyclin... From the last link: > Recycling aluminum saves 90% to 95% of the energy needed to make aluminum from bauxite ore. It doesn't matter if you're making aluminum cans, roof gutters or cookware, it is simply much more energy-efficient to recycle existing aluminum to create the aluminum needed for new products than it is to make aluminum from virgin natural resources. > So how much energy are we talking about here? Recycling one pound of aluminum (33 cans) saves about 7 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity. With the energy it takes to make just one new aluminum can from bauxite ore, you can make 20 recycled aluminum cans. > Putting the energy question into even more down-to-earth terms, the energy saved by recycling one aluminum can is enough to power a television set for three hours. Aluminum is extremely recyclable and energy efficient at doing it. Estimates put it at 75% of all aluminum that has ever been created is still in circulation having been recycled because it is so easy to do it. https://archive.epa.gov/epawaste/conserve/smm/wastewise/web/html/factoid.html https://archive.epa.gov/epawaste/conserve/smm/wastewise/web/... > Aluminum can be recycled using less than 5 percent of the energy used to make the original product. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_recycling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_recycling > Recycling aluminium uses about 5% of the energy required to create aluminium from bauxite; the amount of energy required to convert aluminium oxide into aluminium can be vividly seen when the process is reversed during the combustion of thermite or ammonium perchlorate composite propellant. > Aluminium die extrusion is a specific way of getting reusable material from aluminium scraps but does not require a large energy output of a melting process. In 2003, half of the products manufactured with aluminium were sourced from recycled aluminium material. That wouldn't be the case if it was intensive to recycle.
  - eptcyka 4y ago
    It's still far cheaper to produce a plastic bottle, energy wise. Or, imagine, reusing a glass or metal container multiple times instead of crushing and smelting the same aluminum can every time it's contents are depleted.
- beachy 4y ago
  Not a panacaea but another benefit of aluminium (the correct term for many of us around the world :) is that the process acts as electricity storage, providing a useful way to soak up excess power when it is cheap.
  - shagie 4y ago
    American Companies Still Make Aluminum. In Iceland. - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/us/politics/american-companies-still-make-aluminum-in-iceland.html?unlocked_article_code=6sZt9e152z-oSg_o4FKskr1d12DjShBRuZIpk4TUFbw41OpJKBXH6CQAwW4WQq7QOI1nUKq813fXn4Ey5mrBpVPZ4Z3AmoQBltqveEWIhH9vfjeiauAt3gtoZfR2XNrifkySEvRXb6zsRN7ta7FCFEvG5Ryl-TqE73IqfP7FE6rm6fiAeURIk-nzwbvOMfCgac4onZRJbsZabdmPdtXX5zOaMxvNh_pmfuPjaaofbUmpyqUzdr8ckg_dMgt5QidofbNkMgt2aBj7smF8mVz0YntnpMzjPNpxvfRRug-x3CLAEhrW9tshc2FGz8O5444K_s09INY7yvTfUKmmIy3btcMK8WqnGBfFoJlbiM1tcn49xSeuAPcf5lwL6i0sDZw&smid=share-url https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/us/politics/american-comp... > Electricity in Iceland costs about 30 percent less than what Alcoa might pay in the United States. That’s a crucial consideration, because the Alcoa smelter alone uses more than five million megawatt-hours of electricity each year — about the same as the half-million people and all the businesses in the city of Colorado Springs.
forgotmypw17 4y ago
One drawback of aluminum is that it still has to be lined with plastic, which is burned off before recycling the aluminum. The plastic also leeches into food.
samstave 4y ago
100%, but know that hte 5-cent program has been literally one of hte biggest frauds. But here is where I am, "Are you a 'millenial'? NO I am anti petro. Period. I literally look at every product I purchase and see micro-plastics. When I look at any product on the market, I evaluate how much micro-plastics I am buying. If you are a company that builds products with plastic containers, I do my best to avoid you. But your point is spot on. THE BIGGEST TAX PAYERS IN THE WORLD SHOULD BE ANYONE THAT SUPPLIES THEIR PRODUCT IN SINGLE_USE PLASTIC. My "recycling" bin should contain less bullshit than my garbage. Its a weird phenom that we are conditioned to be "proud" of the amount of fill in our recycle bin.
- theplumber 4y ago
  >> Its a weird phenom that we are conditioned to be "proud" of the amount of fill in our recycle bin. I really believe the subject of banning plastics has been hijacked by oil interests to ecourage "recycling" knowing that it's a broken model. Just like the ESG stocks where you have oil companies being on top of the sustainability chart due their diversity score and high wages.
TonyTrapp 4y ago
From what I know aluminium is also not safe to use with all kinds of foods, especially if they are acidic. Among your examples, this might be a problem with yogurt.
- thfuran 4y ago
  It's already regularly used for soda, which is a good deal more acidic than yogurt. The cans are all coated in plastic.
1MachineElf 4y ago
>One obvious downside though is that aluminum is not clear. Transparent aluminum does exist! Kind of... I haven't seen any evidence that it is viable for packaging. https://hackaday.com/2018/04/03/whats-the-deal-with-transparent-aluminum/ https://hackaday.com/2018/04/03/whats-the-deal-with-transpar...

by proee 4y ago

eatbitseveryday 4y ago

Agreed, though some folks will remind us that alu cans are lined with plastic (which is more a health argument than recycling), but similar to paper cartons, that may need to be stripped prior to recycling.

eptcyka 4y ago

Aluminum is no panacea - its expensive to mine both ecologically and energy wise, and its energy intensive to recycle. I'd be more interested in reusable containers.

shagie 4y ago
https://recycling.world-aluminium.org/review/sustainability/ https://recycling.world-aluminium.org/review/sustainability/ https://citizensustainable.com/recycling-aluminum/ https://citizensustainable.com/recycling-aluminum/ https://www.treehugger.com/the-benefits-of-aluminum-recycling-1204138 https://www.treehugger.com/the-benefits-of-aluminum-recyclin... From the last link: > Recycling aluminum saves 90% to 95% of the energy needed to make aluminum from bauxite ore. It doesn't matter if you're making aluminum cans, roof gutters or cookware, it is simply much more energy-efficient to recycle existing aluminum to create the aluminum needed for new products than it is to make aluminum from virgin natural resources. > So how much energy are we talking about here? Recycling one pound of aluminum (33 cans) saves about 7 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity. With the energy it takes to make just one new aluminum can from bauxite ore, you can make 20 recycled aluminum cans. > Putting the energy question into even more down-to-earth terms, the energy saved by recycling one aluminum can is enough to power a television set for three hours. Aluminum is extremely recyclable and energy efficient at doing it. Estimates put it at 75% of all aluminum that has ever been created is still in circulation having been recycled because it is so easy to do it. https://archive.epa.gov/epawaste/conserve/smm/wastewise/web/html/factoid.html https://archive.epa.gov/epawaste/conserve/smm/wastewise/web/... > Aluminum can be recycled using less than 5 percent of the energy used to make the original product. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_recycling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium_recycling > Recycling aluminium uses about 5% of the energy required to create aluminium from bauxite; the amount of energy required to convert aluminium oxide into aluminium can be vividly seen when the process is reversed during the combustion of thermite or ammonium perchlorate composite propellant. > Aluminium die extrusion is a specific way of getting reusable material from aluminium scraps but does not require a large energy output of a melting process. In 2003, half of the products manufactured with aluminium were sourced from recycled aluminium material. That wouldn't be the case if it was intensive to recycle.
- eptcyka 4y ago
  It's still far cheaper to produce a plastic bottle, energy wise. Or, imagine, reusing a glass or metal container multiple times instead of crushing and smelting the same aluminum can every time it's contents are depleted.
beachy 4y ago
Not a panacaea but another benefit of aluminium (the correct term for many of us around the world :) is that the process acts as electricity storage, providing a useful way to soak up excess power when it is cheap.
- shagie 4y ago
  American Companies Still Make Aluminum. In Iceland. - https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/us/politics/american-companies-still-make-aluminum-in-iceland.html?unlocked_article_code=6sZt9e152z-oSg_o4FKskr1d12DjShBRuZIpk4TUFbw41OpJKBXH6CQAwW4WQq7QOI1nUKq813fXn4Ey5mrBpVPZ4Z3AmoQBltqveEWIhH9vfjeiauAt3gtoZfR2XNrifkySEvRXb6zsRN7ta7FCFEvG5Ryl-TqE73IqfP7FE6rm6fiAeURIk-nzwbvOMfCgac4onZRJbsZabdmPdtXX5zOaMxvNh_pmfuPjaaofbUmpyqUzdr8ckg_dMgt5QidofbNkMgt2aBj7smF8mVz0YntnpMzjPNpxvfRRug-x3CLAEhrW9tshc2FGz8O5444K_s09INY7yvTfUKmmIy3btcMK8WqnGBfFoJlbiM1tcn49xSeuAPcf5lwL6i0sDZw&smid=share-url https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/us/politics/american-comp... > Electricity in Iceland costs about 30 percent less than what Alcoa might pay in the United States. That’s a crucial consideration, because the Alcoa smelter alone uses more than five million megawatt-hours of electricity each year — about the same as the half-million people and all the businesses in the city of Colorado Springs.

forgotmypw17 4y ago

One drawback of aluminum is that it still has to be lined with plastic, which is burned off before recycling the aluminum. The plastic also leeches into food.

samstave 4y ago

100%, but know that hte 5-cent program has been literally one of hte biggest frauds. But here is where I am, "Are you a 'millenial'? NO I am anti petro. Period. I literally look at every product I purchase and see micro-plastics. When I look at any product on the market, I evaluate how much micro-plastics I am buying. If you are a company that builds products with plastic containers, I do my best to avoid you. But your point is spot on. THE BIGGEST TAX PAYERS IN THE WORLD SHOULD BE ANYONE THAT SUPPLIES THEIR PRODUCT IN SINGLE_USE PLASTIC. My "recycling" bin should contain less bullshit than my garbage. Its a weird phenom that we are conditioned to be "proud" of the amount of fill in our recycle bin.

theplumber 4y ago
>> Its a weird phenom that we are conditioned to be "proud" of the amount of fill in our recycle bin. I really believe the subject of banning plastics has been hijacked by oil interests to ecourage "recycling" knowing that it's a broken model. Just like the ESG stocks where you have oil companies being on top of the sustainability chart due their diversity score and high wages.

TonyTrapp 4y ago

From what I know aluminium is also not safe to use with all kinds of foods, especially if they are acidic. Among your examples, this might be a problem with yogurt.

thfuran 4y ago
It's already regularly used for soda, which is a good deal more acidic than yogurt. The cans are all coated in plastic.

1MachineElf 4y ago

>One obvious downside though is that aluminum is not clear. Transparent aluminum does exist! Kind of... I haven't seen any evidence that it is viable for packaging. https://hackaday.com/2018/04/03/whats-the-deal-with-transparent-aluminum/ https://hackaday.com/2018/04/03/whats-the-deal-with-transpar...