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If the price doesn't make sense to you, then don't buy it. If enough people don't buy it they'll bring the price down until they people do. Something being too

If the price doesn't make sense to you, then don't buy it. If enough people don't buy it they'll bring the price down until they people do. Something being too expensive for you doesn't make the seller unethical (unless it's a necessary good maybe - but not a luxury car.)

horsawlarway 4y ago
It's not about too expensive for me - it's about why a manufacturer is able to pick a method of "sale" that has unbounded costs for the "purchaser". This is an unbounded cost. That makes sense when the service provided has an unbounded cost associated with it that the manufacturer is paying, but that's utterly untrue in this situation. This is about a manufacturer taking a cost saving measure - simplified manufacturing lines Then manipulating a digital device to also take a profit increasing measure - creating a digital on/off switch for heated seats that they refuse to provide a key for. Do you think it's ethical for the previous owner of your home to keep the keys? "Hey - you own this house now, but if you want access to the basement - I got the keys and you have to pay up! It's only 25 bucks per month!" That's clearly hostile. What makes you bend over so far backwards to let BMW ream you up the ass here in exactly the same way? Why are you comfortable giving them digital control of something you (in theory only) own?
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  > Why are you comfortable giving them digital control of something you (in theory only) own? I wouldn't want it myself. I don't get why people think it's unethical though. Someone called it a 'crime' elsewhere. That boggles my mind. It's their product - they can offer whatever payment model they want. If it's a crap one then don't buy it. If enough people think it's crap the market will adjust. It's a luxury car, not baby formula.
  - horsawlarway 4y ago
    > they can offer whatever payment model they want This is a distinct misunderstanding of acceptable capitalism. To be very blunt, it's simply not true. We accept the idea that "greed is good" when it comes to capitalism only because we regulate the cases where the market fails to align the interests of the customer and manufacturer. In cases where interests are aligned: Greed is good. The seller wants to take actions that increase profit, and that usually means either reducing the cost to produce the item, or increasing the real (or perceived) value of the item for consumers. Both of those are good things for all parties. In cases where interests are not aligned we regulate the ever-loving shit out of the market because we have incredibly detailed historical evidence that shows that it devolves to straight abuse. Things like - Cartels - Monopolies - Fraud - Misleading advertising - Contractual abuse - Unequal bargaining - Regulated goods (black markets) and several hundred other specific laws we have that only exist because without them people end up killing each other due to real (or perceived) injustice without them.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

horsawlarway 4y ago

It's not about too expensive for me - it's about why a manufacturer is able to pick a method of "sale" that has unbounded costs for the "purchaser". This is an unbounded cost. That makes sense when the service provided has an unbounded cost associated with it that the manufacturer is paying, but that's utterly untrue in this situation. This is about a manufacturer taking a cost saving measure - simplified manufacturing lines Then manipulating a digital device to also take a profit increasing measure - creating a digital on/off switch for heated seats that they refuse to provide a key for. Do you think it's ethical for the previous owner of your home to keep the keys? "Hey - you own this house now, but if you want access to the basement - I got the keys and you have to pay up! It's only 25 bucks per month!" That's clearly hostile. What makes you bend over so far backwards to let BMW ream you up the ass here in exactly the same way? Why are you comfortable giving them digital control of something you (in theory only) own?

chrisseaton 4y ago
> Why are you comfortable giving them digital control of something you (in theory only) own? I wouldn't want it myself. I don't get why people think it's unethical though. Someone called it a 'crime' elsewhere. That boggles my mind. It's their product - they can offer whatever payment model they want. If it's a crap one then don't buy it. If enough people think it's crap the market will adjust. It's a luxury car, not baby formula.
- horsawlarway 4y ago
  > they can offer whatever payment model they want This is a distinct misunderstanding of acceptable capitalism. To be very blunt, it's simply not true. We accept the idea that "greed is good" when it comes to capitalism only because we regulate the cases where the market fails to align the interests of the customer and manufacturer. In cases where interests are aligned: Greed is good. The seller wants to take actions that increase profit, and that usually means either reducing the cost to produce the item, or increasing the real (or perceived) value of the item for consumers. Both of those are good things for all parties. In cases where interests are not aligned we regulate the ever-loving shit out of the market because we have incredibly detailed historical evidence that shows that it devolves to straight abuse. Things like - Cartels - Monopolies - Fraud - Misleading advertising - Contractual abuse - Unequal bargaining - Regulated goods (black markets) and several hundred other specific laws we have that only exist because without them people end up killing each other due to real (or perceived) injustice without them.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]