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Chevy Bolt "Starts at $25,600": https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-ev https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-ev Nissan Leaf "Starting MSRP $27,800": http

by floxy 4y ago

Chevy Bolt "Starts at $25,600": https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-ev https://www.chevrolet.com/electric/bolt-ev Nissan Leaf "Starting MSRP $27,800": https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/electric-cars/leaf.html https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/electric-cars/leaf.html

nightski 4y ago
So bottom of the barrel compact style cars that you can buy new as ICE for like 12-15k with far more range. I know because my wife owns one, it gets 40mpg. Like I said, I'm excited for these new offerings. But acting like they are competitive on pricing or will be soon is just not realistic.
- ericmay 4y ago
  Walking is free. A bike is like a couple hundred bucks max. Sidewalks and bike lanes are way cheaper on your taxes than major highways, associated traffic fatalities (all the young people dying before they can contribute to society), insurance, maintenance, and all of that. There's simply no cost argument to be had. You're talking about comparing EVs to ICE on cost when neither are cost effective. They're both the wrong answer.
  - 5555624 4y ago
    And if you can't walk or bike? There are people who don't have that option; but, they can operate a motor vehicle -- do they just stay home? I'm all for walking and biking. I didn't own a car for 19 years and that's how I got around. Now, having lost my right leg, I can't conceive of walking a couple of miles, which was never an issue. Riding a bike doesn't seem likely, although I haven't ruled it out. A car with modified controls is an option; but, those costs add to the cost of a vehicle.
    - ericmay 4y ago
      > A car with modified controls is an option; but, those costs add to the cost of a vehicle. How is that any different than today? > And if you can't walk or bike? There are people who don't have that option; but, they can operate a motor vehicle -- do they just stay home? Sorry you lost a leg, but I think you could understand that I would maintain what I'm advocating for which would be that you using a motor vehicle for legitimate needs doesn't mean everyone should have to use one for their day-to-day needs. While I don't have any sort of clear statistics here, if you can't walk or bike I'd imagine many also can't or shouldn't be driving. There are solutions here, including mobility services. Leaping toward "well I have a physical condition that mostly requires me to use a car therefore everyone should have to use a car for their needs as well" doesn't seem like a good solution to me. To add, I think as we're talking about people for whom walking and biking is difficult we also forget people for whom driving is difficult or unrealistic. The elderly in particular, those with other medical conditions, etc. You might say, yes we should solve that problem too. And I agree, but what I'd say is that society right now is 100% car-first everything and does not even attempt to address the concerns of these people either. Should they just stay home too? On a lighter note, I've heard many people who have experienced the loss of a limb do well on bikes. I hope that's something you could try and find enjoyment out of if you so choose. Best of luck there. Sincerely.
      - nightski 4y ago
        That's a great fantasy you have there. The reality is that is not how the U.S. is built, nor will it be for a century or more. In fact the poor have to drive more because they can't afford to live close to work. Personally I work from home but make a good living. My poor relative has to drive 90 minutes to his minimum wage job in the city. It's really unfortunate.
      - 5555624 4y ago
        The way I read your initial comment, it was advocating just getting rid of most cars. It's an anti-car attitude I've seen a lot, especially among hardcore cyclists. I've never understood it, even as I spent 19 years dodging traffic in Washington, DC. If I misread your tone, I apologize. >On a lighter note, I've heard many people who have experienced the loss of a limb do well on bikes. I hope that's something you could try and find enjoyment out of if you so choose. Best of luck there. Sincerely. Although I've gotten rid of several, I still have four bikes. I would like to ride again; but, I don't know if it's going to happen. If I do, it's for transportation; so, a prosthetic foot that clips in might not be practical if I am riding to the store or running errands. I may need a socket more suitable to riding than walking. More than anything, though, I worry that I won't be able to keel down and change a tire, out on the road. We'll see, it has not been a year yet. Avoid Necrotizing Fasciitis and Sepsis, nothing good can come out of that combo. (Losing my leg was not the worst thing that happened that day.)
- acejam 4y ago
  "Bottom of the barrel" is a bit of a stretch. These cars have more chips in them than nearly any car on the road, with things like touch screens and Apple CarPlay to boot. It's important to remember the discussion context here: new cars. Does your wife's 40 mpg car have Apple CarPlay and a touch screen? And was it $12-15k brand new? If so, I'd like to buy one. "Well new EVs cost 40-60k" You've now been presented with information that shows otherwise.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

by floxy 4y ago

nightski 4y ago

So bottom of the barrel compact style cars that you can buy new as ICE for like 12-15k with far more range. I know because my wife owns one, it gets 40mpg. Like I said, I'm excited for these new offerings. But acting like they are competitive on pricing or will be soon is just not realistic.

ericmay 4y ago
Walking is free. A bike is like a couple hundred bucks max. Sidewalks and bike lanes are way cheaper on your taxes than major highways, associated traffic fatalities (all the young people dying before they can contribute to society), insurance, maintenance, and all of that. There's simply no cost argument to be had. You're talking about comparing EVs to ICE on cost when neither are cost effective. They're both the wrong answer.
- 5555624 4y ago
  And if you can't walk or bike? There are people who don't have that option; but, they can operate a motor vehicle -- do they just stay home? I'm all for walking and biking. I didn't own a car for 19 years and that's how I got around. Now, having lost my right leg, I can't conceive of walking a couple of miles, which was never an issue. Riding a bike doesn't seem likely, although I haven't ruled it out. A car with modified controls is an option; but, those costs add to the cost of a vehicle.
  - ericmay 4y ago
    > A car with modified controls is an option; but, those costs add to the cost of a vehicle. How is that any different than today? > And if you can't walk or bike? There are people who don't have that option; but, they can operate a motor vehicle -- do they just stay home? Sorry you lost a leg, but I think you could understand that I would maintain what I'm advocating for which would be that you using a motor vehicle for legitimate needs doesn't mean everyone should have to use one for their day-to-day needs. While I don't have any sort of clear statistics here, if you can't walk or bike I'd imagine many also can't or shouldn't be driving. There are solutions here, including mobility services. Leaping toward "well I have a physical condition that mostly requires me to use a car therefore everyone should have to use a car for their needs as well" doesn't seem like a good solution to me. To add, I think as we're talking about people for whom walking and biking is difficult we also forget people for whom driving is difficult or unrealistic. The elderly in particular, those with other medical conditions, etc. You might say, yes we should solve that problem too. And I agree, but what I'd say is that society right now is 100% car-first everything and does not even attempt to address the concerns of these people either. Should they just stay home too? On a lighter note, I've heard many people who have experienced the loss of a limb do well on bikes. I hope that's something you could try and find enjoyment out of if you so choose. Best of luck there. Sincerely.
    - nightski 4y ago
      That's a great fantasy you have there. The reality is that is not how the U.S. is built, nor will it be for a century or more. In fact the poor have to drive more because they can't afford to live close to work. Personally I work from home but make a good living. My poor relative has to drive 90 minutes to his minimum wage job in the city. It's really unfortunate.
    - 5555624 4y ago
      The way I read your initial comment, it was advocating just getting rid of most cars. It's an anti-car attitude I've seen a lot, especially among hardcore cyclists. I've never understood it, even as I spent 19 years dodging traffic in Washington, DC. If I misread your tone, I apologize. >On a lighter note, I've heard many people who have experienced the loss of a limb do well on bikes. I hope that's something you could try and find enjoyment out of if you so choose. Best of luck there. Sincerely. Although I've gotten rid of several, I still have four bikes. I would like to ride again; but, I don't know if it's going to happen. If I do, it's for transportation; so, a prosthetic foot that clips in might not be practical if I am riding to the store or running errands. I may need a socket more suitable to riding than walking. More than anything, though, I worry that I won't be able to keel down and change a tire, out on the road. We'll see, it has not been a year yet. Avoid Necrotizing Fasciitis and Sepsis, nothing good can come out of that combo. (Losing my leg was not the worst thing that happened that day.)
acejam 4y ago
"Bottom of the barrel" is a bit of a stretch. These cars have more chips in them than nearly any car on the road, with things like touch screens and Apple CarPlay to boot. It's important to remember the discussion context here: new cars. Does your wife's 40 mpg car have Apple CarPlay and a touch screen? And was it $12-15k brand new? If so, I'd like to buy one. "Well new EVs cost 40-60k" You've now been presented with information that shows otherwise.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]