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How is it fair that people who got degrees with borrowed money they cannot pay back are to have that burden moved to blue collar workers who went to trade schoo

by mikece 4y ago

How is it fair that people who got degrees with borrowed money they cannot pay back are to have that burden moved to blue collar workers who went to trade schools or other forms of apprenticeship where they never incurred such debts? Yes, this burden will also fall in high-earners -- both those who did and didn't go to college -- but in proportion it will hit lower-earning tax payers the hardest.

IceMetalPunk 4y ago
It's fair because the "burden" is much, much less when dividing across an entire population, and education shouldn't be made available only to people with stuffed bank accounts and rich parents. It's fallacious to think of this as the full impact being transferred to other people. The cost is being transferred, but it's being spread over many, many people, which lowers the impact on everyone.
- sul_tasto 4y ago
  It’s not fair because it doesn’t solve the root college affordability problem. What about the students graduating a year from now and beyond?
  - IceMetalPunk 4y ago
    Not solving the entire problem doesn't mean it's unfair, it just means it's a step in the right direction on a longer journey. Policies like this are a first step towards policies that apply to future generations. If this can show that forgiving loans retroactively -- all the student loans from decades past that are still being repaid -- is feasible, then forgiving loans proactively for future graduates, which is much less cost, is definitely feasible.
    - brnaftr361 4y ago
      It's definitely unfair. I'm currently in college as a non-traditional student who worked my ass off to avoid the debt trap and socially invalidated myself for a half-decade to do so - now not only is my savings dwindling because of price inflation but I'm also being excluded from this one-time forgiveness. I get no benefit from this, nada. I could've pulled loans and speculated on this - I did in fact expect this to happen - but I believe in personal accountability. Instead of entering the workforce ahead the way things are culminating it looks like I'm going to be entering into it indebted because of shit like this. The only fair move was to remediate the system, this is only going to exacerbate everything already in motion, worse for me, worse for my peers, worse for those forgiven. It does nothing to improve the outcomes of those in the future and everything to worsen them. It's a stupid move to buy votes.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - sul_tasto 4y ago
      There was a discussion in the democratic party at the beginning of the Biden administration about offering the first two years of community college for free, similar to what’s been done in Tennessee. This plan was scrapped after universities lobbied the democrats out of fear that it would hurt their bottom line- that is, actually make the cost of college more affordable. This is something that would have benefited everyone, especially the working class. That would have been fair. This half measure is most definitely not a “step in the right direction.” Indeed, your suggestion of finding a way to subsidize new loans at lower cost is exactly what has caused the cost of college to explode - which I’m sure would receive the ardent backing of universities in the US.
  - illiac786 4y ago
    It's fair-er. Or less unfair, if you prefer. Not ideal by a long shot for sure.
adoxyz 4y ago
How is it fair that companies and small businesses got trillions of forgiven money via the PPP when a good majority of them didn't need it? At least this benefits people directly and is a fraction of the money printed the last few years that went to who knows where.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  That may not have been fair either, but two wrongs don't make a right.

by mikece 4y ago

IceMetalPunk 4y ago

It's fair because the "burden" is much, much less when dividing across an entire population, and education shouldn't be made available only to people with stuffed bank accounts and rich parents. It's fallacious to think of this as the full impact being transferred to other people. The cost is being transferred, but it's being spread over many, many people, which lowers the impact on everyone.

sul_tasto 4y ago
It’s not fair because it doesn’t solve the root college affordability problem. What about the students graduating a year from now and beyond?
- IceMetalPunk 4y ago
  Not solving the entire problem doesn't mean it's unfair, it just means it's a step in the right direction on a longer journey. Policies like this are a first step towards policies that apply to future generations. If this can show that forgiving loans retroactively -- all the student loans from decades past that are still being repaid -- is feasible, then forgiving loans proactively for future graduates, which is much less cost, is definitely feasible.
  - brnaftr361 4y ago
    It's definitely unfair. I'm currently in college as a non-traditional student who worked my ass off to avoid the debt trap and socially invalidated myself for a half-decade to do so - now not only is my savings dwindling because of price inflation but I'm also being excluded from this one-time forgiveness. I get no benefit from this, nada. I could've pulled loans and speculated on this - I did in fact expect this to happen - but I believe in personal accountability. Instead of entering the workforce ahead the way things are culminating it looks like I'm going to be entering into it indebted because of shit like this. The only fair move was to remediate the system, this is only going to exacerbate everything already in motion, worse for me, worse for my peers, worse for those forgiven. It does nothing to improve the outcomes of those in the future and everything to worsen them. It's a stupid move to buy votes.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - sul_tasto 4y ago
    There was a discussion in the democratic party at the beginning of the Biden administration about offering the first two years of community college for free, similar to what’s been done in Tennessee. This plan was scrapped after universities lobbied the democrats out of fear that it would hurt their bottom line- that is, actually make the cost of college more affordable. This is something that would have benefited everyone, especially the working class. That would have been fair. This half measure is most definitely not a “step in the right direction.” Indeed, your suggestion of finding a way to subsidize new loans at lower cost is exactly what has caused the cost of college to explode - which I’m sure would receive the ardent backing of universities in the US.
- illiac786 4y ago
  It's fair-er. Or less unfair, if you prefer. Not ideal by a long shot for sure.

adoxyz 4y ago

How is it fair that companies and small businesses got trillions of forgiven money via the PPP when a good majority of them didn't need it? At least this benefits people directly and is a fraction of the money printed the last few years that went to who knows where.

josephcsible 4y ago
That may not have been fair either, but two wrongs don't make a right.