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This is how we can tell you are not a cyclist. It is very difficult to use the brakes and indicate a change in direction at the same time. While cyclists shou

This is how we can tell you are not a cyclist. It is very difficult to use the brakes and indicate a change in direction at the same time. While cyclists should indicate, the nature of the vehicle does make it hard under some conditions. Here's a question for you. If i am stopped at a red light on my bike in what is clearly a left turn lane, why do cars attempt to pull up in front of me anyhow? Cant be bothered waiting for me to make the left so they just force themselves in front of me? is this because i didn't signal?

BlargMcLarg 4y ago
None of what you said has to do with the reality of the matter, nor does you trying to flip the script change things. Look past your own emotions instead of trying to low blow immediately. Comment in question claims people are more empathetic because individuals seem to switch between biking and driving cars almost daily. This is not happening. Live a 30 minute drive away from work, most individuals would take the bike every weekend at best. Most individuals do in fact live that far from work. Furthermore, car usage continues to increase, and roads continue to be expanded as a result. You can say all you want, most individuals are not going to cycle after an 8 hour workday and spending at least an hour commuting. >While cyclists should indicate, the nature of the vehicle >why do cars attempt to pull up in front of me anyhow? Way too focused on cyclist vs vehicle. There are plenty of roads where it isn't always obvious which way someone is going, no matter cyclist or vehicle. These are old roads, but they exist nonetheless. Vehicles are actively punished for not indicating, cyclists are not. Both are hazards for everyone else, themselves and pedestrians included. That's not exactly something that would instill empathy. That should also make it obvious the inverse situation doesn't create empathy either. It's a two-way street and neither is particularly giving to the other. That has nothing to do with automobile vs cyclist vs pedestrian vs whatever, it has to do with.. who would've guessed, people being people. Why do you think laws were made to accommodate cyclists in particular? Why do you think lanes are split? Why do you think many individuals have a particular distaste for sport cyclists, who go high speed through busy roads and expect everyone to adapt to them? It's not empathy, it's a lack of empathy, followed by individuals not wanting to get in trouble over petty little things, and a legal system not wanting to spend thousands of manhours covering he-said-she-said scenarios.
- gjm11 4y ago
  The comment in question is (I believe) referring specifically to how things are in the Netherlands, where my understanding is that long commutes are much less common than they are in the United States, and many more people cycle as well as drive. Is it actually true that "[motor] vehicles are actively punished for not indicating, cyclists are not"? So far as I can tell, it's extremely rare for anyone to be punished for not indicating. (Which is probably the Right Thing; the police surely have better things to spend their time on than watching for drivers or cyclists who fail to indicate.)
uoaei 4y ago
50% of my miles and 90% of my travel time is on a bike. Signalling a change in direction should only be done with your left hand, per manuals. Braking can be achieved with only the right hand (rear brake, typically). Dismounting and signalling/braking is hard to do at once though. And you're right it should be obvious that a cyclist is turning left if they are in the left turn lane.
josephcsible 4y ago
Would we tolerate a car on our roads with turn signals and brakes that couldn't be used at the same time?
- andruby 4y ago
  No we wouldn’t. I would argue that they are not the same thing. I find it easy to tell which direction a cyclist will go even when they don’t/can’t signal. I see it in their head movement, the orientation of the bike, etc. Especially when driving behind a cyclist. When cars don’t signal, I find it harder to guess where they are going.
- kuschku 4y ago
  Why should cyclists, who got the roads built in the first place, be driven from the roads by motorists? Bicycles aren't the problem, the singular focus on cars in our societies is the real problem. Roads used to be shared between horses, carriages, bicycles, vendors, and pedestrians. The car is a monotheistic religion, there can only be one god, the car, and you have to devote your whole life and society to it.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    > Why should cyclists, who got the roads built in the first place, be driven from the roads by motorists? This feels a bit like saying that the US shouldn't have abolished slavery since it was founded by slave owners. > Roads used to be shared between horses, carriages, bicycles, vendors, and pedestrians. Lead used to be in paint and gas. Doctors used to perform surgery without even washing their hands first. People used to use chamber pots instead of toilets. And roads used to be disgusting from being covered in horse manure. > The car is a monotheistic religion, there can only be one god, the car, and you have to devote your whole life and society to it. No, we just want different spaces to be used for different means of transportation, similarly to how you wouldn't want someone riding a motorcycle on the sidewalk.
    - kuschku 4y ago
      > No, we just want different spaces to be used for different means of transportation, similarly to how you wouldn't want someone riding a motorcycle on the sidewalk. So does every cyclist. Yet it's motorists that protest against that every time they'd have to sacrifice a lane.

BlargMcLarg 4y ago

None of what you said has to do with the reality of the matter, nor does you trying to flip the script change things. Look past your own emotions instead of trying to low blow immediately. Comment in question claims people are more empathetic because individuals seem to switch between biking and driving cars almost daily. This is not happening. Live a 30 minute drive away from work, most individuals would take the bike every weekend at best. Most individuals do in fact live that far from work. Furthermore, car usage continues to increase, and roads continue to be expanded as a result. You can say all you want, most individuals are not going to cycle after an 8 hour workday and spending at least an hour commuting. >While cyclists should indicate, the nature of the vehicle >why do cars attempt to pull up in front of me anyhow? Way too focused on cyclist vs vehicle. There are plenty of roads where it isn't always obvious which way someone is going, no matter cyclist or vehicle. These are old roads, but they exist nonetheless. Vehicles are actively punished for not indicating, cyclists are not. Both are hazards for everyone else, themselves and pedestrians included. That's not exactly something that would instill empathy. That should also make it obvious the inverse situation doesn't create empathy either. It's a two-way street and neither is particularly giving to the other. That has nothing to do with automobile vs cyclist vs pedestrian vs whatever, it has to do with.. who would've guessed, people being people. Why do you think laws were made to accommodate cyclists in particular? Why do you think lanes are split? Why do you think many individuals have a particular distaste for sport cyclists, who go high speed through busy roads and expect everyone to adapt to them? It's not empathy, it's a lack of empathy, followed by individuals not wanting to get in trouble over petty little things, and a legal system not wanting to spend thousands of manhours covering he-said-she-said scenarios.

gjm11 4y ago
The comment in question is (I believe) referring specifically to how things are in the Netherlands, where my understanding is that long commutes are much less common than they are in the United States, and many more people cycle as well as drive. Is it actually true that "[motor] vehicles are actively punished for not indicating, cyclists are not"? So far as I can tell, it's extremely rare for anyone to be punished for not indicating. (Which is probably the Right Thing; the police surely have better things to spend their time on than watching for drivers or cyclists who fail to indicate.)

uoaei 4y ago

50% of my miles and 90% of my travel time is on a bike. Signalling a change in direction should only be done with your left hand, per manuals. Braking can be achieved with only the right hand (rear brake, typically). Dismounting and signalling/braking is hard to do at once though. And you're right it should be obvious that a cyclist is turning left if they are in the left turn lane.

josephcsible 4y ago

Would we tolerate a car on our roads with turn signals and brakes that couldn't be used at the same time?

andruby 4y ago
No we wouldn’t. I would argue that they are not the same thing. I find it easy to tell which direction a cyclist will go even when they don’t/can’t signal. I see it in their head movement, the orientation of the bike, etc. Especially when driving behind a cyclist. When cars don’t signal, I find it harder to guess where they are going.
kuschku 4y ago
Why should cyclists, who got the roads built in the first place, be driven from the roads by motorists? Bicycles aren't the problem, the singular focus on cars in our societies is the real problem. Roads used to be shared between horses, carriages, bicycles, vendors, and pedestrians. The car is a monotheistic religion, there can only be one god, the car, and you have to devote your whole life and society to it.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  > Why should cyclists, who got the roads built in the first place, be driven from the roads by motorists? This feels a bit like saying that the US shouldn't have abolished slavery since it was founded by slave owners. > Roads used to be shared between horses, carriages, bicycles, vendors, and pedestrians. Lead used to be in paint and gas. Doctors used to perform surgery without even washing their hands first. People used to use chamber pots instead of toilets. And roads used to be disgusting from being covered in horse manure. > The car is a monotheistic religion, there can only be one god, the car, and you have to devote your whole life and society to it. No, we just want different spaces to be used for different means of transportation, similarly to how you wouldn't want someone riding a motorcycle on the sidewalk.
  - kuschku 4y ago
    > No, we just want different spaces to be used for different means of transportation, similarly to how you wouldn't want someone riding a motorcycle on the sidewalk. So does every cyclist. Yet it's motorists that protest against that every time they'd have to sacrifice a lane.