4 ms·

Lots of Anti-DRM sentiment here, understandably. However, I think the big issue is the Steamdeck becoming a popular platform for Switch emulation. That's simply

Lots of Anti-DRM sentiment here, understandably. However, I think the big issue is the Steamdeck becoming a popular platform for Switch emulation. That's simply not ok. It's wild Valve can get away with this. I would think Nintendo would sue, but its probably fruitless.

josephcsible 4y ago
What exactly do you think Valve did wrong that they should be sued for? Should Quaker Oats Company have gotten sued over the Cap'n Crunch whistles that became popular for hacking phone systems?
mhh__ 4y ago
That's between Nintendo's ego and people who own the steam deck, not valve.
tristor 4y ago
As someone who bought a Steam Deck almost entirely for the purpose of handheld emulation who also owns two Switches, I can tell you that most of the emulation scene on the Deck is very much /not/ Switch games. It's mostly people emulating games from the NES, SNES, N64, Dreamcast, PSX, and similar older systems. Most of these games would do well if they had proper re-releases with updated graphics quality, but the releases we have seen (on PC anyway) have mostly been the original game with an inferior emulator wrapped around it, being resold without any improvements. Square/FF games have been especially guilty of this sin on PC, and pretty much muddied the waters. Meanwhile, Nintendo has been smarter on Switch, shipping first-party emulators for NES and SNES (but without the games people actually want in the catalog), and has convinced Square to re-release Seiken Densetsu 3 with an official English translation on the Switch w/ the full Mana Trilogy, which I bought and paid for, even though I could emulate all three games because they had improved graphics and an official translation. I think the concern you have here is wildly overblown, and for the most part there are a tiny tiny tiny amount of people who are pirating Switch games by running them in emulators. Most Switch piracy is happening /on the Switch/ by people running games off the SD Card instead of buying carts/downloading officially, using patched OS / loaders. Nintendo basically killed this for Switches made after the first run in the first generation, and it's even a non-issue.
- sarsway 4y ago
  > As someone who bought a Steam Deck almost entirely for the purpose of handheld emulation And you seriously can't see the problem? The Steam Deck is direct competitor to the Switch, that also just happens to be the best Nintendo console ever made. Valve profits from it, but can deny any wrong doing. I think you just don't want to admit that intellectual property is a thing - something we hold in high regard in western economies.
  - selfhoster11 4y ago
    Then perhaps Nintendo should release their own best Nintendo console ever made. > intellectual property is a thing - something we hold in high regard in western economies Citation needed. Both me and lots of us here on HN certainly don't hold intellectual property in high regard, because as framework it's done a lot to damage progress.
  - tristor 4y ago
    > I think you just don't want to admit that intellectual property is a thing - something we hold in high regard in western economies. Intellectual Property law in the US is a complete mess and any rational analysis would acknowledge that. That said, I don't play Switch games on my Steam Deck, I don't even have any Switch roms. I own a Switch, why would I play those games on a Steam Deck when I can just play them on the Switch? Yes, the Steam Deck is the best Nintendo console ever made, for emulating Chrono Trigger (my favorite game, and arguably the greatest RPG of all time, released in 1995 for the SNES), that for some reason Nintendo has never re-released on the Switch or provided in their first-party emulators on Switch, despite it being the most requested game for the platform. So... I reiterate my original statements. You are blowing up a non-issue out of proportion.
    - goosedragons 4y ago
      It's a Square Enix game so Nintendo has no control on whether or not to re-release it. There is an admittedly rough PC port of Chrono Trigger on Steam playable on Steam Deck.
selfhoster11 4y ago
What do you mean "Valve" is the one getting away with this? Emulation is a choice made by the users. That Steamdeck is not locked down to make arbitrary code execution impossible, is what makes it a good platform.
smileybarry 4y ago
The Steam Deck is a computer. It's literally advertised as dockable with a full Linux desktop. Do you think Nintendo should also sue Microsoft for allowing emulators to run on Windows?
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
> the Steamdeck becoming a popular platform for Switch emulation. That's simply not ok. It's wild Valve can get away with this. I would think Nintendo would sue, but its probably fruitless. What is Valve getting away with / what would Nintendo sue for? Valve is just selling a general-purpose computer that is intended for - and I suspect (but don't have numbers) mostly used for - running games from Steam. That it's a general-purpose computer and thus ends up running some emulators doesn't make it illegal any more than, say, a Macbook, which can run emulators just as well. Valve would have to somehow be going out of their way to intentionally push/support running Switch games on the Steamdeck for Nintendo to have any standing to go after them.

josephcsible 4y ago

What exactly do you think Valve did wrong that they should be sued for? Should Quaker Oats Company have gotten sued over the Cap'n Crunch whistles that became popular for hacking phone systems?

mhh__ 4y ago

That's between Nintendo's ego and people who own the steam deck, not valve.

tristor 4y ago

As someone who bought a Steam Deck almost entirely for the purpose of handheld emulation who also owns two Switches, I can tell you that most of the emulation scene on the Deck is very much /not/ Switch games. It's mostly people emulating games from the NES, SNES, N64, Dreamcast, PSX, and similar older systems. Most of these games would do well if they had proper re-releases with updated graphics quality, but the releases we have seen (on PC anyway) have mostly been the original game with an inferior emulator wrapped around it, being resold without any improvements. Square/FF games have been especially guilty of this sin on PC, and pretty much muddied the waters. Meanwhile, Nintendo has been smarter on Switch, shipping first-party emulators for NES and SNES (but without the games people actually want in the catalog), and has convinced Square to re-release Seiken Densetsu 3 with an official English translation on the Switch w/ the full Mana Trilogy, which I bought and paid for, even though I could emulate all three games because they had improved graphics and an official translation. I think the concern you have here is wildly overblown, and for the most part there are a tiny tiny tiny amount of people who are pirating Switch games by running them in emulators. Most Switch piracy is happening /on the Switch/ by people running games off the SD Card instead of buying carts/downloading officially, using patched OS / loaders. Nintendo basically killed this for Switches made after the first run in the first generation, and it's even a non-issue.

sarsway 4y ago
> As someone who bought a Steam Deck almost entirely for the purpose of handheld emulation And you seriously can't see the problem? The Steam Deck is direct competitor to the Switch, that also just happens to be the best Nintendo console ever made. Valve profits from it, but can deny any wrong doing. I think you just don't want to admit that intellectual property is a thing - something we hold in high regard in western economies.
- selfhoster11 4y ago
  Then perhaps Nintendo should release their own best Nintendo console ever made. > intellectual property is a thing - something we hold in high regard in western economies Citation needed. Both me and lots of us here on HN certainly don't hold intellectual property in high regard, because as framework it's done a lot to damage progress.
- tristor 4y ago
  > I think you just don't want to admit that intellectual property is a thing - something we hold in high regard in western economies. Intellectual Property law in the US is a complete mess and any rational analysis would acknowledge that. That said, I don't play Switch games on my Steam Deck, I don't even have any Switch roms. I own a Switch, why would I play those games on a Steam Deck when I can just play them on the Switch? Yes, the Steam Deck is the best Nintendo console ever made, for emulating Chrono Trigger (my favorite game, and arguably the greatest RPG of all time, released in 1995 for the SNES), that for some reason Nintendo has never re-released on the Switch or provided in their first-party emulators on Switch, despite it being the most requested game for the platform. So... I reiterate my original statements. You are blowing up a non-issue out of proportion.
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    It's a Square Enix game so Nintendo has no control on whether or not to re-release it. There is an admittedly rough PC port of Chrono Trigger on Steam playable on Steam Deck.

selfhoster11 4y ago

What do you mean "Valve" is the one getting away with this? Emulation is a choice made by the users. That Steamdeck is not locked down to make arbitrary code execution impossible, is what makes it a good platform.

smileybarry 4y ago

The Steam Deck is a computer. It's literally advertised as dockable with a full Linux desktop. Do you think Nintendo should also sue Microsoft for allowing emulators to run on Windows?

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

> the Steamdeck becoming a popular platform for Switch emulation. That's simply not ok. It's wild Valve can get away with this. I would think Nintendo would sue, but its probably fruitless. What is Valve getting away with / what would Nintendo sue for? Valve is just selling a general-purpose computer that is intended for - and I suspect (but don't have numbers) mostly used for - running games from Steam. That it's a general-purpose computer and thus ends up running some emulators doesn't make it illegal any more than, say, a Macbook, which can run emulators just as well. Valve would have to somehow be going out of their way to intentionally push/support running Switch games on the Steamdeck for Nintendo to have any standing to go after them.