4 ms·

If your answer to clean energy to just use less energy, that seems inane. Also the increase in energy costs because of the war in Ukraine is directly related to

If your answer to clean energy to just use less energy, that seems inane. Also the increase in energy costs because of the war in Ukraine is directly related to dependence on foreign fuel which is not clean. So the problem isn't energy consumption, the problem is using fossil fuels.

teaearlgraycold 4y ago
Lower consumption works even better than cleaner energy. Even wind/solar/nuclear has a carbon cost to it. PoS consumes less energy than PoW. That's a win.
- jbaczuk 4y ago
  > Even wind/solar/nuclear has a carbon cost to it. Yeah, so does life.
  - stale2002 4y ago
    But the point here is that if there are easy ways to reduce energy usage, that have few drawbacks, then that is a good thing to get that free lunch.
    - jbaczuk 4y ago
      I understand. My point is there is no reason to reduce energy usage. There is reason to reduce "dirty" energy usage. There is an abundant supply of "clean" energy.
      - stale2002 4y ago
        > My point is there is no reason to reduce energy usage. There is reason to reduce "dirty" energy usage Reducing energy usage is almost exactly the same thing as reducing dirty energy usage. This is because if there is X less total energy required, that means we can shutdown the X worst energy producing sources.
        jbaczuk 4y ago
        If that's how it actually worked, that'd be great. But I don't think you can count on energy demand to decrease or even stay the same over the long term.
rcxdude 4y ago
Energy reduction is basically the best possible option. It's why insulating houses (in both hot and cold climates) is possibly one of the most effective green initiatives, since so much energy goes into heating. Even with a pure renewables grid where you have huge excess of energy at certain times of day and year you will have bottlenecks due to inflexible demands when supply is at the lowest and that will determine how much renewables actually need building (and mining is suprisingly inflexible: when capital costs are as large a portion of the total costs as they are, miners will keep mining even with quite high spikes in energy prices).
- jbaczuk 4y ago
  > Even with a pure renewables grid where you have huge excess of energy at certain times of day and year you will have bottlenecks due to inflexible demands when supply is at the lowest Not with good energy storage solutions.

teaearlgraycold 4y ago

Lower consumption works even better than cleaner energy. Even wind/solar/nuclear has a carbon cost to it. PoS consumes less energy than PoW. That's a win.

jbaczuk 4y ago
> Even wind/solar/nuclear has a carbon cost to it. Yeah, so does life.
- stale2002 4y ago
  But the point here is that if there are easy ways to reduce energy usage, that have few drawbacks, then that is a good thing to get that free lunch.
  - jbaczuk 4y ago
    I understand. My point is there is no reason to reduce energy usage. There is reason to reduce "dirty" energy usage. There is an abundant supply of "clean" energy.
    - stale2002 4y ago
      > My point is there is no reason to reduce energy usage. There is reason to reduce "dirty" energy usage Reducing energy usage is almost exactly the same thing as reducing dirty energy usage. This is because if there is X less total energy required, that means we can shutdown the X worst energy producing sources.
      - jbaczuk 4y ago
        If that's how it actually worked, that'd be great. But I don't think you can count on energy demand to decrease or even stay the same over the long term.

rcxdude 4y ago

Energy reduction is basically the best possible option. It's why insulating houses (in both hot and cold climates) is possibly one of the most effective green initiatives, since so much energy goes into heating. Even with a pure renewables grid where you have huge excess of energy at certain times of day and year you will have bottlenecks due to inflexible demands when supply is at the lowest and that will determine how much renewables actually need building (and mining is suprisingly inflexible: when capital costs are as large a portion of the total costs as they are, miners will keep mining even with quite high spikes in energy prices).

jbaczuk 4y ago
> Even with a pure renewables grid where you have huge excess of energy at certain times of day and year you will have bottlenecks due to inflexible demands when supply is at the lowest Not with good energy storage solutions.