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Docker is built with Go. Compare doing things with Docker api between Go and Python. I usually recommend people to "script" things with Go but I start to think

Docker is built with Go. Compare doing things with Docker api between Go and Python. I usually recommend people to "script" things with Go but I start to think that Go has to go... https://docs.docker.com/engine/api/sdk/examples/ https://docs.docker.com/engine/api/sdk/examples/

metaltyphoon 4y ago
Event the C# version is simpler :D https://github.com/dotnet/Docker.DotNet#example-create-a-container https://github.com/dotnet/Docker.DotNet#example-create-a-con...
rkwasny 4y ago
Exactly this, in rust it will even more complicated than in Go
danwee 4y ago
Wow. That's quite something. I like Go, but more often than not I keep stumbling upong these kind of situations (N LOC to do something in Y, 10xN to do it in Go).
- reitanqild 4y ago
  In addition to a emulating certain teachers dogged insistence of making sure students can't have nice things (an absolute no-brainer feature like generics only showed up recently...!), last time I tried to use Go for a web project a few years ago I was also amused by the lack of templating libraries - the way to make pages was to string together header + main + footer, the old PHP way...! Not a single library supported template composition.
  - coder543 4y ago
    Umm... what are you even talking about? Go has had templating built into the standard library since... forever? And Go templates can use other templates, as long as they're all loaded into the same context, if that's what you were getting at. simple examples of Go's built-in templates: https://gowebexamples.com/templates/ https://gowebexamples.com/templates/ templates using other templates: https://levelup.gitconnected.com/using-go-templates-for-effective-web-development-f7df10b0e4a0#5a97 https://levelup.gitconnected.com/using-go-templates-for-effe...
    - merely-unlikely 4y ago
      I've found Go's templating to be pretty great
    - reitanqild 4y ago
      That doesn't look too bad on a quick glance, but the possibility to say that "this content goes in that template" still seems to be missing. Look at this page: https://quarkus.io/guides/qute-reference https://quarkus.io/guides/qute-reference and read about “Template inheritance” in 3.5.6 to see what I mean.
      - coder543 4y ago
        In this example, I'm passing an object with a single value into the header template, but it could have as many values in it as needed: https://go.dev/play/p/kC8pm4Z4WrH https://go.dev/play/p/kC8pm4Z4WrH Go doesn't really do template inheritance in the way I think you're meaning. Go prefers composition over inheritance, and that carries over to the templating system. Go templates let you pass a parameter to the template you're calling, which I believe addresses the need you linked to. Calling another template is not just simple string concatenation; the other template can act on input provided by the calling template. There are a lot of different ways to approach templating pages in a web app. I think Go's templating system is one of the least objectionable ones I've used. I have no experience with Quarkus, so I can't say how good or bad that one is, but my experience with Ruby templating systems is that people often start mixing complex logic into the templates, including database calls, and that causes things to get messy. Go's template environment is very minimal by default, and you can extend it with custom functions if you want to give more power to the templates, but Go encourages you to compute your data ahead of time, then pass it into the template... and just have your template be a template for formatting the data.
        reitanqild 4y ago
        > people often start mixing complex logic into the templates, including database calls Sometimes you can solve social problems with technical interventions, but at this point, someone needs to sit down and talk :-) > Go encourages you to compute your data ahead of time, then pass it into the template Same elsewhere including modern PHP and Java. The thing that is missing in Go is a natural way to group together what goes around the content. Sure, stringing together the templates (yes, I know the other template can act on input provided by the calling template, but they are still stringed together) feels weird when what one really wants is to fill in slots in a design, which is my thought process.
rob74 4y ago
I would say in this case it's more the API designers' fault than Go's fault. Looks like the Python API is operating at a higher abstraction level than the Go API - using the Python API you can just call a "macro" that does everything required, in Go you have to call each operation individually.
- AtNightWeCode 4y ago
  - dang 4y ago
    Can you please avoid flamebait comments and make your substantive points thoughtfully, per https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html? We don't want flamewars here. Programming language flamewars are especially tedious.
    - AtNightWeCode 4y ago
      Not sure what you are talking about. When I learned C back in the 90’s I was learned to handle every error state by hand. Exactly as you are expected to do in Go about 30 years later. And it sucks. Maybe you can explain why Gophers are such whiners always crying about every freaking comment at any forum.
      - dang 4y ago
        Can you please just not post like this? We're trying for a different kind of forum. I know it feels justified, and I'm sure it is, but the problem is the 'other' side always has its legitimate justifications too, and then everyone goes after each other and there's no more curious exchange.
        AtNightWeCode 4y ago

metaltyphoon 4y ago

Event the C# version is simpler :D https://github.com/dotnet/Docker.DotNet#example-create-a-container https://github.com/dotnet/Docker.DotNet#example-create-a-con...

rkwasny 4y ago

Exactly this, in rust it will even more complicated than in Go

danwee 4y ago

Wow. That's quite something. I like Go, but more often than not I keep stumbling upong these kind of situations (N LOC to do something in Y, 10xN to do it in Go).

reitanqild 4y ago
In addition to a emulating certain teachers dogged insistence of making sure students can't have nice things (an absolute no-brainer feature like generics only showed up recently...!), last time I tried to use Go for a web project a few years ago I was also amused by the lack of templating libraries - the way to make pages was to string together header + main + footer, the old PHP way...! Not a single library supported template composition.
- coder543 4y ago
  Umm... what are you even talking about? Go has had templating built into the standard library since... forever? And Go templates can use other templates, as long as they're all loaded into the same context, if that's what you were getting at. simple examples of Go's built-in templates: https://gowebexamples.com/templates/ https://gowebexamples.com/templates/ templates using other templates: https://levelup.gitconnected.com/using-go-templates-for-effective-web-development-f7df10b0e4a0#5a97 https://levelup.gitconnected.com/using-go-templates-for-effe...
  - merely-unlikely 4y ago
    I've found Go's templating to be pretty great
  - reitanqild 4y ago
    That doesn't look too bad on a quick glance, but the possibility to say that "this content goes in that template" still seems to be missing. Look at this page: https://quarkus.io/guides/qute-reference https://quarkus.io/guides/qute-reference and read about “Template inheritance” in 3.5.6 to see what I mean.
    - coder543 4y ago
      In this example, I'm passing an object with a single value into the header template, but it could have as many values in it as needed: https://go.dev/play/p/kC8pm4Z4WrH https://go.dev/play/p/kC8pm4Z4WrH Go doesn't really do template inheritance in the way I think you're meaning. Go prefers composition over inheritance, and that carries over to the templating system. Go templates let you pass a parameter to the template you're calling, which I believe addresses the need you linked to. Calling another template is not just simple string concatenation; the other template can act on input provided by the calling template. There are a lot of different ways to approach templating pages in a web app. I think Go's templating system is one of the least objectionable ones I've used. I have no experience with Quarkus, so I can't say how good or bad that one is, but my experience with Ruby templating systems is that people often start mixing complex logic into the templates, including database calls, and that causes things to get messy. Go's template environment is very minimal by default, and you can extend it with custom functions if you want to give more power to the templates, but Go encourages you to compute your data ahead of time, then pass it into the template... and just have your template be a template for formatting the data.
      - reitanqild 4y ago
        > people often start mixing complex logic into the templates, including database calls Sometimes you can solve social problems with technical interventions, but at this point, someone needs to sit down and talk :-) > Go encourages you to compute your data ahead of time, then pass it into the template Same elsewhere including modern PHP and Java. The thing that is missing in Go is a natural way to group together what goes around the content. Sure, stringing together the templates (yes, I know the other template can act on input provided by the calling template, but they are still stringed together) feels weird when what one really wants is to fill in slots in a design, which is my thought process.

rob74 4y ago

I would say in this case it's more the API designers' fault than Go's fault. Looks like the Python API is operating at a higher abstraction level than the Go API - using the Python API you can just call a "macro" that does everything required, in Go you have to call each operation individually.

AtNightWeCode 4y ago
- dang 4y ago
  Can you please avoid flamebait comments and make your substantive points thoughtfully, per https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html? We don't want flamewars here. Programming language flamewars are especially tedious.
  - AtNightWeCode 4y ago
    Not sure what you are talking about. When I learned C back in the 90’s I was learned to handle every error state by hand. Exactly as you are expected to do in Go about 30 years later. And it sucks. Maybe you can explain why Gophers are such whiners always crying about every freaking comment at any forum.
    - dang 4y ago
      Can you please just not post like this? We're trying for a different kind of forum. I know it feels justified, and I'm sure it is, but the problem is the 'other' side always has its legitimate justifications too, and then everyone goes after each other and there's no more curious exchange.
      - AtNightWeCode 4y ago