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Already happening - the biggest miner refused to include Tornado Cash transactions in the mining pool. Stick a fork in it. Ethereum is done. With that degree

by spaceman_2020 4y ago

Already happening - the biggest miner refused to include Tornado Cash transactions in the mining pool. Stick a fork in it. Ethereum is done. With that degree of centralization, might as well just run a database and call it a day.

exo762 4y ago
Since blockchains are specifically built with idea of censorship resistance in mind, and Ethermine not including TC transactions can't actually prevent other miners from including them... I'm struggling to understand the point you are trying to make. Are you talking about lack of ideological purity of Ethermine?
- spaceman_2020 4y ago
  > lack of ideological purity of Ethermine? Yes, and the fact that everyone in the Ethereum community has largely glossed this over in their enthusiasm for the "merge" and what it will do the price of their assets. Cryptocurrencies that embrace the centralization and censorship of fiat currencies are completely unnecessary and have no real utility. Tornado Cash and Ethermine should have been a line in the sand, a hard boundary for what's acceptable and what's not. But the fact that no one even cares tells me that the community will be happy to accept even more censorship as long as their bags keep going up. Pathetic, really.
  - exo762 4y ago
    Ethermine is out - because the merge is in. They are literally out of the business. Why would anyone care what they do? As for TC - who is rolling over? While some US based businesses are complying, protocol builders are saying that they will fight tooth and nail.
rmujica 4y ago
AFAIK in any network (including Bitcoin), any miner can select any transaction in the mempool. There will always be a miner (or validator in PoS) that will be willing to take Tornado Cash fees.
- sph 4y ago
  A miner can choose whatever fork they want, but if the other clients don't accept it it's effectively useless. There is only one Bitcoin, and it's basically the chain the most clients are following. If you decide to follow another chain, you have created a new "coin", but Bitcoin is unaffected.
samkon 4y ago
Except that these transactions do eventually go through. It’s a relatively soft form of censorship - and doesn’t actually achieve the goal of preventing the transactions. IMO - this behavior is a blip. As soon as it becomes clear that “censorship” isn’t effective, it will become less popular for validators to do it at all.
stiltzkin 4y ago
Waiting you run a big central database as Ethereum with the same marketcap.
- spaceman_2020 4y ago
  Why should the marketcap be of any concern to me? Is that how you evaluate technologies? By their marketcap?
idiotsecant 4y ago
some salty crypto tribalists ITT, I expected better of you HN.

exo762 4y ago

Since blockchains are specifically built with idea of censorship resistance in mind, and Ethermine not including TC transactions can't actually prevent other miners from including them... I'm struggling to understand the point you are trying to make. Are you talking about lack of ideological purity of Ethermine?

spaceman_2020 4y ago
> lack of ideological purity of Ethermine? Yes, and the fact that everyone in the Ethereum community has largely glossed this over in their enthusiasm for the "merge" and what it will do the price of their assets. Cryptocurrencies that embrace the centralization and censorship of fiat currencies are completely unnecessary and have no real utility. Tornado Cash and Ethermine should have been a line in the sand, a hard boundary for what's acceptable and what's not. But the fact that no one even cares tells me that the community will be happy to accept even more censorship as long as their bags keep going up. Pathetic, really.
- exo762 4y ago
  Ethermine is out - because the merge is in. They are literally out of the business. Why would anyone care what they do? As for TC - who is rolling over? While some US based businesses are complying, protocol builders are saying that they will fight tooth and nail.

rmujica 4y ago

AFAIK in any network (including Bitcoin), any miner can select any transaction in the mempool. There will always be a miner (or validator in PoS) that will be willing to take Tornado Cash fees.

sph 4y ago
A miner can choose whatever fork they want, but if the other clients don't accept it it's effectively useless. There is only one Bitcoin, and it's basically the chain the most clients are following. If you decide to follow another chain, you have created a new "coin", but Bitcoin is unaffected.

samkon 4y ago

Except that these transactions do eventually go through. It’s a relatively soft form of censorship - and doesn’t actually achieve the goal of preventing the transactions. IMO - this behavior is a blip. As soon as it becomes clear that “censorship” isn’t effective, it will become less popular for validators to do it at all.

stiltzkin 4y ago

Waiting you run a big central database as Ethereum with the same marketcap.

spaceman_2020 4y ago
Why should the marketcap be of any concern to me? Is that how you evaluate technologies? By their marketcap?

idiotsecant 4y ago

some salty crypto tribalists ITT, I expected better of you HN.